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Original poster

That New Zealand's strategy has failed

999 replies

JudesBiggestFan · 22/08/2021 23:21

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

OP posts:
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5
EccentricaGalumbits · 23/08/2021 08:30

@stepupandbecounted

Look at the long term projection.

Why can't people do this?

That is why the NZ strategy is doomed to fail, and why the Swedes had it right all along.

It is now dawning on Australia what their future looks like, and that is why there are huge protests, because some have taken a good look at reality and realised that this is going to be it, endless lockdowns, endlessly sealed away from the world and all for a virus that tends to choose the people most likely to die anyway (with a few rare exceptions) Almost all of my friends have had covid, and some have had it twice, none of us are afraid anymore. We have to learn to live with the virus. It really is as simple as that.

Huh?

There's been protests since the very start of lockdowns last year. It's just your usual anti-establishment rabble (i.e. angry young men) who spend too much time in the dark corners of the internet and would protest against anything.

I'm all for debate but you can tell most of the posters in this thread have absolutely no idea about life in NZ or Aus and are spouting off based on what they read in the Daily Mail.

CheekyHobson · 23/08/2021 08:31

@stepupandbecounted

The reason you still feel comfortable is because you are not looking at this in the longer term, you are thinking short term.

How many times are New Zealanders going to have to repeat that WE ALREADY KNOW that the country will need to open borders at some point, probably in the next 12 months? The only person on this thread who keeps insisting NZ intends to keep borders closed and Covid out forever is you.

stepupandbecounted · 23/08/2021 08:31

50ShadesOfCatholic

Your thinking and strategies are very short term. In the long term you will have to adjust to the virus. Self congratulatory posts are fine if they are well informed, and answer the big questions, so far you have failed to do so.

How can you keep responding to a zero covid strategy with strict hard lockdowns in years from now?

Please don't reply with vaccines, as that idea is now firmly out of date, given the latest data coming out of Israel. It is unlikely any of us will reach herd immunity. UK is now at 90% plus antibodies for adults and we are still seeing large clusters and outbbreaks.

So I will ask again what is the LONG TERM strategy? Because the one you have now is incredibly short term if you hope to return to any degree of real normal life or anything approaching it and travel again.

It looks like a mirage from here, and we are worried for you.

stepupandbecounted · 23/08/2021 08:33

WE ALREADY KNOW that the country will need to open borders at some point, probably in the next 12 months?

So what is going to change in the next 12 months in order for you to 'safely' open the borders?

idontlikealdi · 23/08/2021 08:33

God what a depressing thread from both points of view. No one can declare success yet.

Fwiw my family in NZ are stressed out at the moment, not been called for vaccination yet and are in lockdown. I think part of the problem is it's hard to have much empathy with a snap 6 day lock down when we've been through god knows how many with little or no empathy coming back this way. I don't think you can explain what's it like to be in lockdown for that long and how utterly surreal it all was when you look back on it.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 23/08/2021 08:33

Janina
Let's not forget either that the death rates are influenced by age & ethnicity. Our population has a huge number of very elderly people and that's where the deaths were concentrated. 19% of the UK is over 65.

Bigballa · 23/08/2021 08:34

@JaninaDuszejko i honestly don't see your point. Yes people are dying, everywhere but New Zealand.

What do our cases per head compared to China have to do with whether it is appropriate for those in the UK with no knowledge of nz to be throwing shade about our approach? We had cases, v we shut down, no more cases, life as normal. Another case appeared, we shut down again, we now stop the spread and save lives.

New Zealand has decided that sacrificing a portion of our population is not the approach we want to take. I cannot comprehend how the UK where life has been disrupted throughout and thousands have died thinks they are placed to be throwing stones here.

igelkott2021 · 23/08/2021 08:37

UK is now at 90% plus antibodies for adults and we are still seeing large clusters and outbbreaks

Yes but a lot of those people wouldn't even know they had it if they weren't testing for it. They'd just think they had a cold (or maybe have no symptoms at all and only know they have it because they are testing every week for work or have tested due to contact tracing). And those who feel grotty with it don't feel any worse if they had a bad cold - colds can be horrible too and make you need to take to your bed but we seem to have forgotten that. Despite all the scaremongering on here, the vaccine does work for most people, and many of us had the "inferior" AZ one, which appears to work better long-term. NZ and Australia had a window of time to use it, and didn't - up until then their strategy was good and it was working. Now they need to get off their bottoms and vaccinate much more quickly (and actually I think they've vaccinated more people than they are being given credit for).

As for the post above about vaccinations being a mirage and demanding MNers come up with a long term alternative strategy - er what?

legosunqueen · 23/08/2021 08:38

Unbelievable arrogance & ignorance on this thread. 26 sadly dead versus over 150k - NZ's strategy has been successful, there will always be blips in an imperfect world but I know where I'd rather have been during the pandemic (I'm in the UK but have family in NZ)...

TheStoic · 23/08/2021 08:38

It looks like a mirage from here, and we are worried for you.

What specifically are you worried about?

TheStoic · 23/08/2021 08:39

I cannot comprehend how the UK where life has been disrupted throughout and thousands have died thinks they are placed to be throwing stones here.

It is actually mind-boggling.

Bryonyshcmyony · 23/08/2021 08:39

Vaccines are a mirage?

I know coronavirus has all sent us slightly potty but mate...

twelvefiftynine · 23/08/2021 08:42

Jesus you lot are fucking desperate to shit on other countries who haven't been destroyed like yours aren't you.

Bryonyshcmyony · 23/08/2021 08:44

@twelvefiftynine

Jesus you lot are fucking desperate to shit on other countries who haven't been destroyed like yours aren't you.
Oi not all of us! As long as NZ get vaccinating and can accept not having a zero covid policy they'll have done amazingly well and I'd have much rather have been there for the last 18 months.
JaninaDuszejko · 23/08/2021 08:47

The only city in the UK larger than Auckland is London.

Depends which figures you use. The official city limits are often much smaller than the actual urban area so e.g. while the official population of the city of Leeds is ~800K the west yorkshire urban area is more like 1.8M. Manchester's urban area is 2.7M, Birmingham's urban area is 2.6M. Auckland is 1.6M which is in no way comparable to London's 10M, and it has a population density 1/4 of London's.

Bigballa · 23/08/2021 08:49

Looks like a mirage?

FFS you do understand that by there very nature a mirage gives a false impression to those far away and once you are actually there can you see the reality.

Because then yes, it's a mirage. You lot far away are looking at it and seeing one thing while those of us actually here are trying to tell you that's not how it is at all, but for some reason you are initiating that your view is the correct one.

This is ridiculous. Only time will tell the correct strategy, the stats are dodgy and all anyone has is anecdotal evidence which is worthless. We're in the middle of the fucking game, it's not time to be calling winners. It's meant to be world vs covid, everyone is scrambling with what they've got and rolling with it as it comes.

We're happy, so shut up. Kia kaha, we're rooting for yas.

stepupandbecounted · 23/08/2021 08:51

God if this thread is a genuine reflection of the general consensus in NZ, they are totally screwed!

It is a defensive, ill thought out strategy that is depending on vaccines that will be permanently evolving and may never offer herd immunity even if it were possible to vaccinate everyone (which is isn't) and certainly will never offer the protection needed for 'zero' covid!!

You are in total denial if you think things are going to be different in 12-18 months from here, if you are still continuing with a zero covid strategy, by then you will have already endured endless lockdowns and your travel sector will be dead and buried, along with any hope of a normal life.

You are being sold a mirage. Real life/liberty the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that you can never find.

The fact you are so content to squander your civil liberties and right to life is really scary. Why aren't you more worried about the long term projection? Why aren't you looking at Israel right now and realising that this utopia of a covid free life does not actually exist?

Why are you not looking at the actual facts? Rather than what you are being told?

What country in the world has zero covid??

TheStoic · 23/08/2021 08:54

The fact you are so content to squander your civil liberties and right to life is really scary.

Oh you're one of those! Your posts make sense now.

Cam77 · 23/08/2021 08:54

@TheStoic
Yeah exactly. I have serious reservations about the “zero Covid” strategy a few countries (eg NZ, China) have been pursuing. But they got it 80% right the first eighteen months, whereas Europe got it 80% wrong. What happens the next eighteen months is uncertain, so time will tell which strategy is correct.

AnyOldPrion · 23/08/2021 08:57

@stepupandbecounted

WE ALREADY KNOW that the country will need to open borders at some point, probably in the next 12 months?

So what is going to change in the next 12 months in order for you to 'safely' open the borders?

The population will be vaccinated.

The UK has mostly opened up because most of the people who want to be vaccinated are vaccinated and therefore there’s nothing more to be done.

Other countries with slower vaccine roll out will open up a little later.

Not sure which part of this you feel is difficult to understand or remotely controversial.

Fizbosshoes · 23/08/2021 08:58

The Pandemic is not over, and I think it's pretty crass to talk about success and failure in the same way I think it's weird when posters talk about the uk being a laughing stock. I think most countries are focused on dealing with their own populations, and I cant imagine anyone finds humour in watching another country suffer.

Our own PM (in my opinion) has made several disastrous decisions and im no apologist for the uk gov but while NZ have been lauded for decisive and quick action, in some ways they had luck on their side. They closed their borders the day the WHO declared a pandemic, which, thankfully for them, was before covid had reached their shores. I do think the uk have been incredibly slack about quarantine, border control and incoming visitors, especially in the very early days, but even if we had closed our borders (which would be logistically more problematic anyway) the same day ....or even a month before it was already here
I'm pretty sure it has since been proven it was here in January 2020 which was actually weeks before lockdowns or border controls were being taken into consideration.
I'm not sure why we are saying NZ has failed when in the last 18 months they have had far more freedom and normality than a lot of other countries.

StartupRepair · 23/08/2021 08:58

The huge protests in Melbourne this weekend were a couple of thousand anti vaxxers and white supremacists. Really really not representative of society at large.

SmokeyDevil · 23/08/2021 08:58

@Puppalicious

I’m not from NZ or the UK, but I am taken aback by the brainwashing by the UK media that some of the statements can be made. *@PermanentTemporary* , you are so right! The UK has handled this horrendously and I am fascinated by the total acceptance that over 100 deaths a day is completely normal and a-ok. Our Government would be facing massive criticism of our pro capita death rate was at that daily.
I wouldn't be surprised. The British public are quite selfish deep down and this pandemic has only proven it. More concerned about getting a holiday in the sun for their mental health because they simply cannot cope anymore otherwise than of people dying. They really can't complain if their relatives die, but they will.

If we want to live our lives as normal, you have to accept more will die or at the very least you will become ill more frequently. You can't have both.

stepupandbecounted · 23/08/2021 08:58

All countries have made mistakes, UK included, but I don't think you can lock up your people indefinitely relying on scientists producing a magical cure for your people on the other side of the world. It is a life sentence that you are not really acknowledging, choosing to believe it is 'just for now'.

It is not just for now, this is it, and I am sorry it that hurts and you don't want to hear it, but we are stuck with covid indefinitely. Zero covid does not exist, and will never exist. I wish you all a safe passage out of this quagmire and hope some of you will at least consider the possibility of a middle road.

Blossomtoes · 23/08/2021 09:00

@twelvefiftynine

Jesus you lot are fucking desperate to shit on other countries who haven't been destroyed like yours aren't you.
Not in the least. NZ has done incredibly well apart from its lackadaisical attitude towards vaccination which is a good six months behind Europe. I’m not buying the altruism argument for a second.