That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

*part

@TomPinch
Under section 70 they do have that power, absolutely.

What some of us are pointing out however is that it is discretionary.

Meanwhile, current headline on MailOnline is Australia and New Zealand's Covid Strategy Continues to Crumble

This is called politics and deflection. So much better to point fingers when ones own performance is questionable.

Also ignorant to lump Australia and NZ together, much like lumping England and France together 😂

NZ's Labour Party does not do dirty politics, that thing of endless bickering and finger pointing in order to prop themselves up. They committed to focusing on the task in hand the moment they took the lead in the coalition.

Just yesterday the Australian PM criticised NZs pandemic management, a tactic very familiar to right wing governments. Ardern's only response was that she was "not too fussed". She persistently refuses to give that sort of crap any oxygen, something I greatly admire.

[quote 50ShadesOfCatholic]@TomPinch
Under section 70 they do have that power, absolutely.

What some of us are pointing out however is that it is discretionary.[/quote]
Do you mean this?

S 70 Health Act 1956

"For the purpose of preventing the outbreak or spread of any infectious disease, the medical officer of health may from time to time, if authorised to do so by the Minister or if a state of emergency has been declared under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002 or while an epidemic notice is in force,—
...
(f) require persons, places, buildings, ships, vehicles, aircraft, animals, or things to be isolated, quarantined, or disinfected as he thinks fit:

Which would suggest, as I think you do, the that D-G of Health can require any specific person to quarantine but there is no automatic requirement to quarantine.

There was a regulation mentioned upthread and I would have expected there to be one for something as particular as this.

No, I posted the relevant section above

I have a number of friends and family members who have done MIQ and no one has minded doing it, let alone suffered mental ill health. I do know a lot of people whose mental health has suffered as a result of the much longer UK lockdowns

Oh well each to their own. I'd rather be locked down in my own home and still able to go out for food and exercise, than locked up in one room on my own for up to 28 days. Lockdown isn't fun but it isn't as bad as imprisonment. And if I had to isolate I'd be much more comfortable in my own home, too. I take the point that not everyone can afford to isolate but even if hotel quarantine is free, you would still earn nothing unless you are able to work from a hotel room.

Anyway it's certainly a massive disincentive to travel! I felt sorry for the Australian Olympic team who were told they had to do hotel isolation for 28 days. I imagine those who could, didn't return, eg those competing in the athletics Diamond League in Eugene at the weekend.

@50ShadesOfCatholic

No, I posted the relevant section above

Thanks.

It was gennz who mentioned a public health order. But perhaps they meant an order against a specific person under s 70- if so my bad.

They closed the vaccination centres along with everything else in this last lockdown 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

They closed the vaccination centres along with everything else in this last lockdown 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

Who are you taking about? New Zealand?

I booked my vaccination last week on Weds 18/8, day 1 of this lockdown. I got my vaccination on 19/8, day 2 of this lockdown. The place was humming.

Just to be explicit - vaccination centres are open, operating and get significant (record) numbers of jabs into arms right through lockdown in NZ.

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

They closed the vaccination centres along with everything else in this last lockdown 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

No, vaccinations were paused for 24-48hrs to focus delivery where most needed. Vaccinations have been administered in record levels during this lockdown. I had my second one yesterday at one of many centres working flat tack.

@CheekyHobson

Part 4 of the Public health Act 1956 is all about quarantine. Covid-19 isn’t just a noticeable infectious disease in NZ, but a quarantinable one. People can be detained in a hospital or other suitable place. I’m not a lawyer, but I assume this is the relevant law that allows people to be moved to Jet Park.

www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1956/0065/latest/whole.html

Yes @TomPinch since then a covid specific piece of legislation has been passed (the Covid 19 Public Health Response Act) and specific orders are issued off that. Last week’s lockdown order was the 9th order issued.

I think s70 is still the relevant power to require isolation/quarantine. As someone mentioned it is discretionary - on the part of the public health officer, it’s not discretionary on the part of the person with Covid. If you can show you can isolate sufficiently you could potentially stay at home. Most people can’t if they live in a household with other people, in which case the public health officer can mandate that you isolate in a Govt facility.

I’m not massively anti this approach - outbreaks have been rare so the power hasn’t been deployed very often. MIQ is harder though and the booking system is a schemozzle.

The Govt has always signalled that these measures would change - they are clearly not sustainable long term - but I had my doubt about whether they would ever have been able to make changes while we were a covid free fortress. In a way Delta may have done us a favour by (a) opening up the vaccination programme quicker and motivating NZers to get jabbed faster and (b) forcing the Govt to pivot on the elimination strategy and use more nuanced tools to manage the risk (as opposed to across the board border closures and L4 lockdowns).

At this point I just want takeaways back 😩

Part 4 of the Public health Act 1956 is all about quarantine. Covid-19 isn’t just a noticeable infectious disease in NZ, but a quarantinable one. People can be detained in a hospital or other suitable place. I’m not a lawyer, but I assume this is the relevant law that allows people to be moved to Jet Park.

Section 3 seems to me to be more about individual isolation directives and to my reading as long as the individual can/is complying with self-isolation directives at home, there is no legal compulsion for them to leave their place of residence and go to a specified quarantine facility. Only if they're breaking isolation requirements would the officer of health issue a quarantine order.

@Gennz18

Not quite takeaways but there are quite a few meal delivery services available. We've been using mealbox and it's been great!

@CheekyHobson

Perhaos read the story I posted earlier foe an insight in how section 70 is being used atm

We possibly just have different expectations from our elected politicians, different experiences, and different priorities.

Well said! For all @stepupandbecounted's ramblings about what they "wouldn't put up with" they are seemingly quite happy with a government I doubt very much we would tolerate in NZ.

@CheekyHobson

Yes, I think there’s scope under the act for people to remain at home to isolate and that’s set out in Part 3, but it looks as though they’d need to be able to prevent or minimise the risk they pose to other people to be able to do so.

In our house it’d be impossible if one of us caught covid to stop it spreading to others in the house, but I suppose if you live alone, the whole household has tested positive at the same time, you have a massive house etc then there is provision to stay at home.

@50ShadesOfCatholic, that was in response to NZ Ardern publicy criticising Australia's handling of Delta which was shown at a press conference last week or week before.
Actually that's one point which I found really off-putting. During the first lockdown she also made comments about Irelands handling of the pandemic , we had a really v strict lockdown, one of the strictest and longest in Europe. Northern Ireland massively impacted this, I was very taken aback by her comments tbh ...seemed so unprofessional for a politician to be criticising other countries in the middle of a global pandemic.

To be fair, everyone seems to think their lockdown was the strictest.

There's a cool graphic here with a slider.

ig.ft.com/coronavirus-lockdowns/

[quote Abitlost2]@50ShadesOfCatholic, that was in response to NZ Ardern publicy criticising Australia's handling of Delta which was shown at a press conference last week or week before.
Actually that's one point which I found really off-putting. During the first lockdown she also made comments about Irelands handling of the pandemic , we had a really v strict lockdown, one of the strictest and longest in Europe. Northern Ireland massively impacted this, I was very taken aback by her comments tbh ...seemed so unprofessional for a politician to be criticising other countries in the middle of a global pandemic.[/quote]
No she doesn't do public criticism. When asked why we were going into lockdown for just one case she pointed and said "Australia"
She did not criticise the handling, she just reiterated what we all knew which is that Australia (though more specifically, NSW) was suffering. She just doesn't do negative politics.

If course she does negative politics, she’s a politician not Mother Theresa

@Gennz18

If course she does negative politics, she’s a politician not Mother Theresa

Show me evidence, I would be very interested to see.

And I don't think I have called her Mother Theresa at any point?

To be fair, everyone seems to think their lockdown was the strictest.

My fave is the way that during the latest outbreak Gladys' has gone through about five repeats of a cycle of saying that NSW has "extremely strict" restrictions in place and then following day saying that unfortunately they have been forced to make the restrictions stricter.