That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

Still this thread is full of delusional posts re New Zealand framing it as barbaric and dystopian!

Inhabitants of a country which has lost 170,000 of their compatriots are not in a position to criticise a county who has lost 26 . Nor has NZ exported covid to other countries.

^^ This.

@HarrietPierce

"Not great for the countries who took a gamble on those though, as we have seen in Europe." But as The Guardian reports:

Six EU states overtake UK Covid vaccination rates as Britain’s rollout slows
Malta, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Ireland overtake UK in fully jabbed percentages.

And in France many 12 year olds have been jabbed as my friend in France informs me.

I was referring to Ursula von der Leyen's petty and spiteful behaviour earlier in the year.

"I was referring to I was referring to Ursula von der Leyen's petty and spiteful behaviour earlier in the year. petty and spiteful behaviour earlier in the year"

Well the proposal to invoke article 16 was very quickly aborted and
Ursula von der Leyen apologised. Johnson himself has made the same threat.

@HarrietPierce

"I was referring to I was referring to Ursula von der Leyen's petty and spiteful behaviour earlier in the year. petty and spiteful behaviour earlier in the year"

Well the proposal to invoke article 16 was very quickly aborted and
Ursula von der Leyen apologised. Johnson himself has made the same threat.

Indeed. I'm not sure why you are making the discussion UK-centric. Have you assumed that I'm British?

some great people, open minded and curious. When I read this thread I do not see any evidence of anyone that is open minded, willing to consider other views or willing to challenge any kind of fixed thinking. Maybe covid has made you collectively more insular and defensive or maybe it is just the people on here that do not seem to be able to see that other people's views are just that, you don't need to berate them for feeling differently to you.

Hello pot? This is the kettle. Can you actually hear yourself saying these words?

You are not ‘considering other views’, and your entire MO on this thread has been incredibly defensive, ‘unable to see that other people’s views are just that’ and ‘berating people for feeling differently to you’.

I guess 18 months of COVID has made you more insular and less open-minded.

"Indeed. I'm not sure why you are making the discussion UK-centric. Have you assumed that I'm British?"

I haven't assumed anything MapleMay11. Just stating a fact.

@HarrietPierce

"Indeed. I'm not sure why you are making the discussion UK-centric. Have you assumed that I'm British?"

I haven't assumed anything MapleMay11. Just stating a fact.

So why make the discussion UK-centric? The purpose of this thread is to discuss New Zealand's strategy.

@stepupandbecounted

None of this alters the fact that day to day life is restriction free and largely normal for most people in the UK

Yes that is correct slip and I would say normal life is even better than normal because we all appreciate it much more after the lockdown.
Under no circumstances whatsoever can I see an MIQ being acceptable here, not even in the worst moments, there is no way people would have stood for it. Or the borders being permanently closed, nor the idea that you can't even have a takeaway?! You have accepted so much that other countries, in Europe especially, would see riots on the streets for even the merest suggestion of incarceration due to testing positive.

It is wildly over reacting to what is just a cold for most people. You will come to this all differently in time, you are caught up in fear and in the middle of a brainwashing lockdown. In time, you will look back and see it was way too much. Most of us already feel like that about our first lockdown now, but we are other side of the pandemic admittedly.

You're on the other side of the pandemic? You're dreaming - there's currently 100 deaths per day in the UK.

I'm sorry you didn't get the response you were hoping for from NZ based people; maybe you would get more people open to your views on a conspiracy theory message board/group.

I'd also point out that life being relatively back to normal in the UK is also relatively recent - July 19th. And it ain't looking good on the numbers, going into Autumn and winter, with the NHS staff exhausted and at the end of their rope after battling covid for so long, giving it all they've got and more, then doing everything they can to catch up on other treatments and operations - plus issues are reported as being possible with the flu vaccine efficacy and availability this winter, particularly if boosters are found to be required.

To minimise covid as being no worse than a cold for most people beggars belief - it belittles the experience of the people who have died, who have lost loved ones, who have spent extensive time in hospital, those who have run themselves into the ground providing medical care and residential care for those affected, those who have long covid, those who have run themselves into the ground covering for their many colleagues who have been affected with covid, those who have had to struggle through covid while still working from home, often also homeschooling.

You're on the other side of the pandemic? You're dreaming - there's currently 100 deaths per day in the UK.

This what UK residents find exasperating about New Zealand possibly, yes there are 100 deaths a day, it's quite possible that it will be like that forever. You don't seem to grasp that Covid is here permanently and it will continue to kill people every day in much the same way as many other things do. It isn't that we're numb to it just sadly realistic.

"So why make the discussion UK-centric? The purpose of this thread is to discuss New Zealand's strategy."

I hardly think one comment makes the discussion UK centric !

@Clearlyunhinged

You're on the other side of the pandemic? You're dreaming - there's currently 100 deaths per day in the UK.

This what UK residents find exasperating about New Zealand possibly, yes there are 100 deaths a day, it's quite possible that it will be like that forever. You don't seem to grasp that Covid is here permanently and it will continue to kill people every day in much the same way as many other things do. It isn't that we're numb to it just sadly realistic.

It's quite possible it will be like that forever. However, it's possible it may not be. Perhaps covid will become less deadly over time. I think 'wait and see' is not a bad plan.

Seriously I find it so depressing that people really haven't moved on in any way since the start of the pandemic - which is not even classified as a pandemic officially any longer.

We do not count up people that die from cancer/heart attacks/flu/pneumonia every day do we? It is a bone of contention now that we are still doing so with covid. The majority of those passing away would be doing so anyway. Most of them in fact were in hospital for another reason perhaps with heart failure etc and caught covid in the ward, but it is covid that goes on the death certificate and not the real reason which is that they were dying anyway. This has happened to many of my friends parents, whom were all very ill and old long before covid came along. It is so alarmist and quite frankly misleading to suggest that it is a 100 healthy people that are dying every day - it simply not the case, it has been proved over and again that most of those that are dying were at the end days sadly anyway. So I am quite relaxed about it, sorry for their families of course, but knowing that life works like that, it comes to an end for all of us.

Around 10,000 - 11,000 people die every week in the UK on average this is not breaking news. It might worry you with such a small population but here it is standard and normal and not newsworthy. No one hear is worried in the least about it.

Incredibly we saw that more people were living for longer once covid had begun, less people were dying generally but don't let the facts get in the way of a good story! :)

**here

@Chocaholic9

Just to highlight that due to the relative population sizes 100 deaths per day in the U.K. would equate to around 7 per day in NZ based on my maths (happy to accept any maths errors!)

It does certainly feel as though we are through the worst of it now in the U.K. although I accept things could change (keeping everything crossed they don't!)

The point about covid is that it is preventable. That's what we're doing in NZ.

It's a shame that you don't care about other people's dead family members. If it were your child or parent who died from it, I'm sure we'd see a rapid change of opinion.

And you are fully entitled to your feelings and opinions stepupandbecounted. As are others. Even when they do not reflect your own musings. Other people having other opinions, doing things differently, being happy to do things differently does not necessarily make them closed minded, insular or defensive. They might get a tad pissed off at you continuing to tell them how ignorant, wrong, closed minded, insular, or defensive they are - it's a valid feeling or opinion for a person who disagrees with your assessment as it is continually expressed to hold and express.

I will say again for MOST people covid IS just a cold. Look at the stats yourself msbosnz
It does not take away the suffering of those that have died, or the efforts of the medics to preserve every life. It is simply what it is, and I am very proud of the whole country, especially the incredible response and deployment of the vaccine.

One of the reasons why I am so supportive of the easing of travel is that all of my friends that work on the covid wards as medics and doctors have managed to have a proper holiday and are recharging in France or Greece, this will put them in good stead if the winter is tricky. The booster shots are going out next week, everyone over 50 is having a flu vaccine and possibly a booster, and all school aged children will be vaccinated with the flu vaccine. We are at 91% in terms of the entire nation having antibodies, so many of us are feeling quietly confident that the autumn and winter will be fine.

The numbers are reasonably high but controlled, and they are mostly young festival goers and teens partying that are recovering without any issues. If you look at the age brackets it is to be expected. Indeed I believe it was part of the plan for the majority of those unvaccinated to catch covid before the winter sets in, and over the summer. Although no one has confirmed it in public. It is obvious. The bars are heaving with those enjoying the summer drinks and you can't even find a table anywhere for dinner, everywhere is packed, and yes people are hugging again and living life. After all we have done to get here, we have made so much progress to reclaim our lives, not to live under the long shadow of covid forever but to be free.

The point about covid is that it is preventable

This isn’t true though. Not unless you cut yourself off from the world for the foreseeable. Even with sky high vaccination levels, there will be covid.

Of course every post on here is valid and important, and whatever view that is express is theirs and they have every right. I respect that many feel it is safer to continue as they are, and of course as a country NZ is free to continue as they are forever if they wish. It is not for anyone else to decide that is for sure!
I guess I am just exasperated that there does not seem to be any recognition at all that covid is here and it is here forever, we need to learn to adjust to life living right next to it comfortably. I definitely don't agree with forcing people into MIQs as I am someone who cherishes freedom and choice, for me this is the most appalling state of affairs for those in NZ but many clearly support the idea, and that is fine. From here it sounds pretty scary, and that is my honest assessment. You may talk about lovely rooms with views, but it is still a locked room for weeks on end. I find that thought chilling. It is okay for us to be different, and have different ideas about the future. And no one way is right. We relentlessly question our choices/freedoms/gov decisions and challenge each one, I guess I just don't see that at all in NZ.

Well, stepupandbecounted, UK has decided its actions, and accepted its consequences, and NZ is perfectly entitled to do the same.

I'm sure we have very different opinions as to who has got it right, but ultimately, both countries have a leadership (that is not you or I) that has made its determinations according to its priorities and resources, as it is entitled to do, and people are entitled to accept and embrace it, if they feel it's the right thing to do, or to vote them the fuck out at the next election. Interestingly enough, NZ has been through a national election under MMP since the pandemic became an issue. Labour got a majority vote, a landslide victory, the first time since MMP was introduced.

Were you eligible to vote? Do you think, if not, that your voice and opinions, from afar, should carry more weight than those that have lived the NZ experience of the Pandemic, who pay the taxes that carry the social welfare system and healthcare system?

I assure you, the average Kiwi is no dumber than the average Brit.

We possibly just have different expectations from our elected politicians, different experiences, and different priorities.

The point about covid is that it is preventable

I dont know if it is though, long term, within a fully functioning society. NZ has done better than most to contain it but there are still cases, even there.

Even in the first lock down in the uk where a huge amount of the population did comply and did stay at home there are an enormous amount of people who have to go out to work to keep the country functioning at the most basic of levels...so there will always be an element of risk.

@Gennz18

They actually are, under the public health order issued on 24 March 2020 under s70 of the Health Act

@Gennz18

Which order specifically? Not that I mind if going to a facility is compulsory but I'm curious now.

Legislation.govt.nz doesn't allow me to search legislative instruments by date of coming into force.

And my point re smugness has reared its ugly head again.

It is not and never was a competition. countries have done it in different ways, with differing results, eg NZ, Singapore, Sweden. Countries have counted deaths in completely different ways so relative comparators are hard in those with "high" death counts.

Covid is here to stay, like influenza ( which killed millions worldwide) and we now live with influenza and have a vaccine. We all need to learn to live with it.