That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

[quote FiveShelties]@MapleMay11

Absolutely right.

I am really sad that I cannot get a slot in MIQ which would mean I could travel to see my Mum in the UK, but we have been really fortunate here and I am just grateful that none of my family or friends have contracted Covid and are safe and well. I have my fingers tightly crossed that my Mum will stay safe in the UK and I will be able to travel soon .

I still find it strange some days to believe this is all actually happening, it feels like a film script.[/quote]
It's unbelievably harsh. My DH's cousin lost her father a couple of months ago but wasn't able to travel from the UK to Australia for the funeral and she hadn't seen him for almost two years before then. I hope you're able to come over here soon and you all stay safe and well.

@Gennz18

Because if you go into managed isolation with your family/close contacts, the risk of the infection creeping into the community can be effectively curtailed.

If you isolated at home but your family/close contacts were still able to come and go (even if just to the supermarket or the park) the risk of the infection being transmitted into the community is increased. To manage that risk effectively at home you’d all need ankle bracelets or similar like home D (which has been mooted).

Yes, so you can’t trust a family to isolate together in their home where they would be much more comfortable, because there is astronomical risk attached to a single breach. That’s the current situation.

[quote 50ShadesOfCatholic]@MapleMay11

It is definitely driving the vaccine uptake. I was booked for my second jab today at a Pacific Peoples church and I was cancelled to make way for an upsurge in demand from Samoan, Tongan, Cook Islands people. Which I fully support.

The Samoan church at the centre of the furore has been so dignified, all power to them.[/quote]
I'm so pleased to hear this (although not that you have had to wait even longer). I've lived in two Pacific Island countries and understand from experience what a huge challenge health promotion is.

Thank you @MapleMay11 - I hope you and your family stay well . I am so sorry for your DH's cousin, that must be so very tough. Take care.

@PinkTonic Yes that’s been the situation to date. I suspect the strategy is about to change though.

@MapleMay11

It's OK, I got the jab at another centre no problem ☺

@igelkott2021
My 18yo gets her second jab next week too (here in NZ) and my 12yo his first one tomorrow.

Third boosters have been ordered.

@50ShadesOfCatholic Excellent news. I have so much gratitude for everyone who has worked so hard over the last 18 months to make this possible for us all.

And whilst we're not in lockdown in the UK, if you've persuaded yourself we're back to normal you're deluding yourself - there are frequently whole regions without ICU beds or paediatric ICU beds available, we do not have a functional health service at the moment

Do you work in the NHS?

Pre-covid there was frequently no availability for an ICU bed in some regions. That’s why it works as a national network. A doctor on Twitter recently had to apologise for implying there was no paediatric ICU availability, because it simply wasn’t true.

Look, covid hasn’t gone anywhere in the UK. People are still getting sick from it. It is still putting pressure on the NHS and will continue to do so. Working in the NHS is not back to normal, and I imagine this is true of some other professions eg care workers, teachers when the schools go back. But day to day life in the UK is free from restrictions.

I think NZ has done brilliantly but pretending that life in the UK isn’t much improved on the past 18 months, and that a great deal of normality hasn’t been restored is just gratuitous negativity.

Too early to say whether it has failed. Certainly if you look at number of cases and hospitalisations, absolute or per capita deaths, relative economic performance, amount of time spent under lockdown restrictions, NZ would still be world-leading on most indicators.

I don't think it's clear yet whether they'll be able to get on top of the current outbreak but I think there's a reasonable chance. From what I understand cases which are being picked up at the moment are ones that pre-date the current lockdown. And their lockdown seems to be much stricter than the partial lockdowns we had in the UK, which were always a bit of a joke.

I highly doubt they'll be able to keep Covid out forever, but I don't think that's their strategy either. Once the population is vaccinated their plan is a mix of continuing border controls for high risk countries, combined with surveillance, public health measures and action to stamp out local outbreaks. The real unknown is whether an elimination strategy can work in the absence of strict lockdowns - personally, I am sceptical given the infectiousness of Delta but then no one else has really tried it.

In terms of the vaccination programme, the rollout does seem fairly slow but then NZ is a small country with no domestic manufacturing capacity for vaccines. The countries that were first in the queue for vaccines are those who experienced significant Covid outbreaks and who also had the economic clout to commandeer vaccine supplies, like the UK and US. As a New Zealander living in the UK I think I would have been quite cross if my NZ family had been offered a vaccine before my family here in the UK were.

One of the key reasons for people going into the Jet Park MIQ facility when they have covid is to avoid spreading covid to their entire household, which in some cases could involve quite a number of people. Having confirmed cases transfer to MIQ is intended to shorten the amount of time a family has to spend isolating.

During the first lockdown in NZ the slow spread of covid through a household resulted in some families having to isolate for extended periods of time, which isn’t ideal for anyone.

I imagine many people go to Jet Park because they want to protect other family members.

And whilst we're not in lockdown in the UK, if you've persuaded yourself we're back to normal you're deluding yourself - there are frequently whole regions without ICU beds or paediatric ICU beds available, we do not have a functional health service at the moment

Rubbish, my partner is a nurse in South London and there are very few Covid cases in their hospital let alone ICU, elective surgery going full steam ahead.

@Clearlyunhinged

And whilst we're not in lockdown in the UK, if you've persuaded yourself we're back to normal you're deluding yourself - there are frequently whole regions without ICU beds or paediatric ICU beds available, we do not have a functional health service at the moment

Rubbish, my partner is a nurse in South London and there are very few Covid cases in their hospital let alone ICU, elective surgery going full steam ahead.

So everything’s OK in South London. What part of “whole regions”, ie outside the London bubble, don’t you understand?

If you isolated at home but your family/close contacts were still able to come and go (even if just to the supermarket or the park) the risk of the infection being transmitted into the community is increased

If you are isolating at home you do not go anywhere! End of. It is not open to discussion. Your food and deliveries are delivered to the garden or outside your front door. Medicine ditto if needed. The idea that a positive case will pop to the supermarket or the park is ridiculous.

The reason why you are using MIQs is simply because your government is hell bent on pursuing the zero covid strategy.

And instead of trusting the sensible and careful citizens (and I may add intelligent adults) of NZ and following a home isolation policy, as almost every other country in the world is doing outside of China, it is choosing to treat you all like children and locking people up. I am assuming once in the MIQ you can not simply leave if you change your mind?

Do you actually realise how disturbing that policy sounds to everyone else? You have been coaxed into believing it is for your own good which I am sure is not the case for everyone.
At what point are you likely to see suicides and breakdowns? As more and more people are unable to cope with confined isolation for long stretches - which by the way if you are also in law you will know we use isolation and segregation as a PUNISHMENT in our prisons for poor behaviour. The prisoners here are put into cells alone, given food and 30 mins daily exercise as a punishment. So you can see why it is considered to be draconian, we try to avoid inflicting this even on our prisoners because it is known to cause such harm and mental anguish, and the prisoners aren't even ill with covid! It is unimaginable to be suffering from some of the extreme effects of covid and alone in this way. For some people they will not be well enough to keep themselves clean or their surroundings or to cope with being alone for so long.

At some point someone is going to wake up and realise you can not run this kind of MIQ programme for years/decades with no consequences. It IS extremely harmful whichever way you look at it.

By the way it is also worth noting that by the time you have symptoms and are tested and given the results, the chances are the rest of your family and friends/contacts will have caught delta by then anyway, so it won't minimise spread by very much sending large volumes of people into secured facilities (with or without free will)

Not that it is even feasible to open endless MIQ as the infection spreads gennz

there are frequently whole regions without ICU beds or paediatric ICU beds available, we do not have a functional health service at the moment

Yes that is a complete lie. Things are pretty much back to normal everywhere in the UK, and most people understand that covid is here to stay and are getting on with enjoying their lives.

@stepupandbecounted

If you isolated at home but your family/close contacts were still able to come and go (even if just to the supermarket or the park) the risk of the infection being transmitted into the community is increased

If you are isolating at home you do not go anywhere! End of. It is not open to discussion. Your food and deliveries are delivered to the garden or outside your front door. Medicine ditto if needed. The idea that a positive case will pop to the supermarket or the park is ridiculous.

The reason why you are using MIQs is simply because your government is hell bent on pursuing the zero covid strategy.

And instead of trusting the sensible and careful citizens (and I may add intelligent adults) of NZ and following a home isolation policy, as almost every other country in the world is doing outside of China, it is choosing to treat you all like children and locking people up. I am assuming once in the MIQ you can not simply leave if you change your mind?

Do you actually realise how disturbing that policy sounds to everyone else? You have been coaxed into believing it is for your own good which I am sure is not the case for everyone.
At what point are you likely to see suicides and breakdowns? As more and more people are unable to cope with confined isolation for long stretches - which by the way if you are also in law you will know we use isolation and segregation as a PUNISHMENT in our prisons for poor behaviour. The prisoners here are put into cells alone, given food and 30 mins daily exercise as a punishment. So you can see why it is considered to be draconian, we try to avoid inflicting this even on our prisoners because it is known to cause such harm and mental anguish, and the prisoners aren't even ill with covid! It is unimaginable to be suffering from some of the extreme effects of covid and alone in this way. For some people they will not be well enough to keep themselves clean or their surroundings or to cope with being alone for so long.

At some point someone is going to wake up and realise you can not run this kind of MIQ programme for years/decades with no consequences. It IS extremely harmful whichever way you look at it.

By the way it is also worth noting that by the time you have symptoms and are tested and given the results, the chances are the rest of your family and friends/contacts will have caught delta by then anyway, so it won't minimise spread by very much sending large volumes of people into secured facilities (with or without free will)

Not that it is even feasible to open endless MIQ as the infection spreads gennz

You're talking bollocks.

You're talking bollocks

In lieu of replying with anything intelligent or meaningful you resort to this, it is not difficult to see why NZ government were able to convince you easily that being locked away is for your own good when you see posts like this.

@stepupandbecounted

You're talking bollocks

In lieu of replying with anything intelligent or meaningful you resort to this, it is not difficult to see why NZ government were able to convince you easily that being locked away is for your own good when you see posts like this.

I've told you my first hand experiences of MIQ (2 weeks of being cooped up followed by a glorious year of freedom) but you have ignored them and persist in claiming it's barbaric and cruel; that we are being PUNISHED (what's with the caps?) and living in a small version of China.

As another poster said, you're incapable of assimilating any new information. You don't know what you're talking about.

You've obviously read a bunch of conspiracy theory websites and are choosing to belief whatever it is you've read, over the lived experiences of Kiwis. All the while telling us we're misinformed. So yes, you're talking bollocks.

It is also worth considering that any family that has a child that tests positive will have to stay with the child in the facility, and as we have seen over and over again, one member after another tends to catch it. So it is perfectly likely that you will soon start to see parents that are in MIQs for months as each child becomes sick, tests positive, and then the parents themselves are then ill, have the gov not considered the impact on young families being caught up in a cycle of positives for months stuck in isolation in MIQ. Perhaps then we might see some kind of backlash.

My friend spent nine weeks last summer in total in isolation all bar three days with her kids, so good luck to the poor buggers that are in this situation. You try keeping babies, toddlers and young children happy contained in one room and a bathroom for months fortunately for her she has a big house in the country with a huge garden, and all the kids toys and a pool. So it was fine. It is not even worth thinking about how people really are coping as a family in the MIQ. Or do you simply not care?

@stepupandbecounted

It is also worth considering that any family that has a child that tests positive will have to stay with the child in the facility, and as we have seen over and over again, one member after another tends to catch it. So it is perfectly likely that you will soon start to see parents that are in MIQs for months as each child becomes sick, tests positive, and then the parents themselves are then ill, have the gov not considered the impact on young families being caught up in a cycle of positives for months stuck in isolation in MIQ. Perhaps then we might see some kind of backlash.

My friend spent nine weeks last summer in total in isolation all bar three days with her kids, so good luck to the poor buggers that are in this situation. You try keeping babies, toddlers and young children happy contained in one room and a bathroom for months fortunately for her she has a big house in the country with a huge garden, and all the kids toys and a pool. So it was fine. It is not even worth thinking about how people really are coping as a family in the MIQ. Or do you simply not care?

You are very boring. Haven't you got anything better to do than post the same misinformed crap over and over?

Another poster has mentioned...it isn't compulsory to go into MIQ if you have covid.

It IS compulsory so why do you keep saying it isn't? There was even a post from a lawyer pointing out the legislation! Read the thread please before posting inaccurate comments.

@stepupandbecounted

Yes, you just say anyway because it is SO much easier than the real answer.

You are not allowed to say no to MIQ are you, you are being coerced and forced into the facilities and have no other option. What does that say about your human rights or lack of, your democracy and your ability to live freely? All currently under threat or already taken away. It is a massive infringement of your civil liberty like or not.

Have you considered that the MIQ might be a good answer to any infectious disease? The next HIV or SARS outbreak or even a bad flu strain, now open and running the MIQ could be used and abused for any disease going forward in the 'national interest'. The fact you can not see what a dangerous path this is for your country is very telling/frightening to listen to.

@stepupandbecounted the next HIV outbreak? You do realise that HIV is an ongoing epidemic? Also considering it's well known that it's a BBV (blood bourne virus) what's the relevance unless you're going back to the 80s when it was more stigmatised than it was now?

MIQ would never be the answer to any infectious disease and scaremongering to suggest so. Thankfully we work on knowledge of each individual virus - raising awareness, prevention, testing and treatment.

Really? You don't think MIQ will be used for anything else? Why not? Flu kills people as well, so do lots of other things. Why should it only apply to covid?

Do you not see you are opening up a whole way of life where the state chooses whether you are incarcerated, whether you are free, what illnesses do or do qualify. No one seems to grasp the power of this kind of legislation.

@stepupandbecounted

Really? You don't think MIQ will be used for anything else? Why not? Flu kills people as well, so do lots of other things. Why should it only apply to covid?

Do you not see you are opening up a whole way of life where the state chooses whether you are incarcerated, whether you are free, what illnesses do or do qualify. No one seems to grasp the power of this kind of legislation.

Because the government is struggling to pay for MIQ as it is. Even if they wanted to, how would they come up with the cash for isolating people for every single contagious disease out there? You have obviously not thought this one through.

stepup

But a complete libertarian approach would be a disaster for NZ, exponential growth of delta plus a population with naive immunity. I’m having draconian rules about MIQ, it prevents more draconian interventions by locking down the whole country for extended periods. It’s the lesser of two evils.