That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

I got a text today asking me to book my first vaccine. I'm in my 30s and in NZ. There was an appointment available tomorrow. Looks like they are really speeding up the vaccine rollout.

They are, my 12YO is booked in and many of his friends have already had their first vax.

@stepupandbecounted

And to be fair it is quite alarming to watch NZ become a small version of China overnight. Your measures are way too draconian. Unbelievably hardcore and unnecessary. If you are cool with that, great, but that is more of a worry not less!

You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that UK has had some pretty draconian restrictions itself, which has led to much heart ache and economic damage and still one of the highest death rates of major economies.

NZ has vaccinated it 's most vulnerable and with in months, will open up and the vast vast majority will not have the grief of having lost loved ones to CV... unlike 150k families in the UK.

You don’t have a choice whether to stay in MIQ. It is enforced. It is not “strongly encouraged”.

That’s why we have had numerous cases of people missing being at their mum or dad’s deathbed, absconding out the window and being retrieved by the police etc etc

Regardless most Kiwis have generally been in favour of how Covid has been managed thus far, although I think that attitude is changing as we are locked down and Delta whips through and we see the northern hemisphere opening up.

Two weeks in a 4star hotel

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself this is a GOOD thing. You are in a locked and sealed room with food being fed to you by a gloved hazmat three times a day for weeks on end! Not some glorious spa resort You have scheduled slots for fresh air and exercise at best and that is it!!!! Hardly an all expenses paid holiday of a lifetime is it!!!

I have got to hand it to you, you certainly sound brain washed folks.

My congratulations to Jacinda for totally brain washing and converting the masses to believe her Chinese policies are a wonderful, wonderful treat for you all. Jesus Wept. It would be quite funny, if the consequences were not so serious, and the implications. I wonder how far she will take it now she has full control.....she is literally Jeremy Corbyn on steroids, and even HE wouldn't dare to suggest MIQs!

Come back at Christmas when New Zealand has a higher percentage of population immunized than the UK and still less than a thousandth of the deaths, and we'll have this conversation about trade-offs again'

Nah, no smuggery from NZ then?

Settle down @stepupandbecounted Jacinda is hardly the devil incarnate m, she’s generally done a good job in hard circumstances (while still being a self-interested politician - aren’t they all?)

That said, a good friend’s dad died suddenly last week. He was a well-loved man by his large family and community. Under normal circumstances we would have been able to go to the house, say goodbye, give him a great send off and drink his health. He won’t have a funeral - not even immediate family. It’s not allowed under level 4. We should not be in this situation.

@stepupandbecounted

I have said this before in this thread but you seem incapable of absorbing any information. You really need to educate yourself before posting.

You can check the ministry of health website for deets on managed isolation. It certainly isn't required for every case.

But I'm getting that you're not interested in facts or the opinions and experiences of people who live here, you have a drum to bang and you're going to continue whether or not it aligns with the tune.

No-one wants covid. All countries are trying to manage. NZ has been doing great. The management strategy is fluid and most likely of us have faith that our elected representatives are working their socks off to look after us. I'm sorry you find that offensive.

@Gennz18

Settle down *@stepupandbecounted* Jacinda is hardly the devil incarnate m, she’s generally done a good job in hard circumstances (while still being a self-interested politician - aren’t they all?)

That said, a good friend’s dad died suddenly last week. He was a well-loved man by his large family and community. Under normal circumstances we would have been able to go to the house, say goodbye, give him a great send off and drink his health. He won’t have a funeral - not even immediate family. It’s not allowed under level 4. We should not be in this situation.

Oh that's so sad, I'm so sorry.

Your argument is back to front. Robust lockdown procedures to protect them? You have to have the most draconian and authoritarian measures in place now because if you get exponential spread you’re sitting ducks. If it works now you will have been very very lucky. Again. The fact that your government has put you in this position so far into the pandemic is unconscionable.

So is your answer is "build a time machine and go back in time to insist the government does things differently" or "build a time machine to go forward in time and skip past the lockdown"?

It is great you are all so happy with it, I must say, worrying compliant to every restriction, loss of liberty that is inflicted on you. You see nothing wrong with it, I hear you, but honestly please stop shouting down the debate and pause for a moment. Is it really okay for everyone? Why can't people simply isolate at home with covid, and be trusted to do so? Why are we so behind with the vaccine roll out?

It is called critical thinking. Challenging what you are hearing, considering the facts rather than what you are being told, weighing up if you agree with the policies and deciding for yourself what you feel is the right way forward. Being spoon fed a diet of nanny state and serious intrusion and infringement of your human rights should not be taken lightly.

The fact you are so angry with my questions shows me you are not as comfortable as you seem about it, after all, why the emotion if it is all perfect and utopian in the NZ? Why be so defensive.

You don’t have a choice whether to stay in MIQ. It is enforced. It is not “strongly encouraged”.

That's MIQ when you've come in from overseas, which is a legal requirement of entry through the border.

If you acquire Covid in the community you are not required to go into MIQ but the Ministry of Health will try their best to convince you to do so.

@stepupandbecounted

Two weeks in a 4star hotel

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself this is a GOOD thing. You are in a locked and sealed room with food being fed to you by a gloved hazmat three times a day for weeks on end! Not some glorious spa resort You have scheduled slots for fresh air and exercise at best and that is it!!!! Hardly an all expenses paid holiday of a lifetime is it!!!

I have got to hand it to you, you certainly sound brain washed folks.

My congratulations to Jacinda for totally brain washing and converting the masses to believe her Chinese policies are a wonderful, wonderful treat for you all. Jesus Wept. It would be quite funny, if the consequences were not so serious, and the implications. I wonder how far she will take it now she has full control.....she is literally Jeremy Corbyn on steroids, and even HE wouldn't dare to suggest MIQs!

As someone who has been through this "not a glorious spa resort" as you called it, I can tell you, it's 100x better than what you guys have been through in the UK.

I spent 6 months in the UK shielding, went to NZ, then did my 2 weeks in MIQ, got out of MIQ then I had a year of freedom. I was able to resume salsa dancing in NZ (one of my favourite hobbies that brings me a lot of joy... no one has been able to salsa dance in the UK over the last 18 months.) I was able to date, make friends and live life normally in NZ, and my mental health was much improved.

You need to worry about your own country.

If I did MIQ and then had to spend a year in lockdown, I'd not be feeling so good about NZ's elimination strategy, but as it was, I got a whole year of living life like how it was pre covid before we had to lock down again, so I think they're on the right track.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

@stepupandbecounted

It is great you are all so happy with it, I must say, worrying compliant to every restriction, loss of liberty that is inflicted on you. You see nothing wrong with it, I hear you, but honestly please stop shouting down the debate and pause for a moment. Is it really okay for everyone? Why can't people simply isolate at home with covid, and be trusted to do so? Why are we so behind with the vaccine roll out?

It is called critical thinking. Challenging what you are hearing, considering the facts rather than what you are being told, weighing up if you agree with the policies and deciding for yourself what you feel is the right way forward. Being spoon fed a diet of nanny state and serious intrusion and infringement of your human rights should not be taken lightly.

The fact you are so angry with my questions shows me you are not as comfortable as you seem about it, after all, why the emotion if it is all perfect and utopian in the NZ? Why be so defensive.

Because I've done both.

The UK was shit, shielding under lockdown and I couldn't wait to leave.

NZ has been one year of pre-covid freedom.

When you've done both and you know of what you speak, then maybe you'll have something worthy of being listened to. As it is, you come off like some kind of deranged conspiracy theorist.

@stepupandbecounted

None of us can speak for others. Certainly there is an anti vax movement and an element of negativity levelled at some of the management strategies. There are always some who defy lockdown and cough on police officers, that sorta thing.

Much of your debate has been thrashed out here in the past. It seems passé now. Some people here were very frightened about the prospect of managed isolation when it was first mooted about a year ago, but that's all died down because people who have experienced it have been happy with it.

It's normal to feel apprehensive about change and uncertainty.

I think though that most of us here take heart in the fact our govt delivered last lockdown which bodes well for our future. Past behaviour being the best indicator of future behaviour and all that.

There is an attitude of being in this together and uniting to get through to better times. Everyone has a job to do even if it is just staying home. It's a brilliant comms and marketing strategy and no matter how cynical you are, it cannot be denied that it has worked.

Much of it is cultural too, we are in the waka together and what matters is the people, he tangata he tangata

There are two serious costs of Covid; lives lost and the impact of multiple lockdowns and social isolation. New Zealand have had far less of both. However much longer it takes them to resume to complete and total normalcy compared to us in the UK, they have nothing but my admiration and envy.

@CheekyHobson

You don’t have a choice whether to stay in MIQ. It is enforced. It is not “strongly encouraged”.

That's MIQ when you've come in from overseas, which is a legal requirement of entry through the border.

If you acquire Covid in the community you are not required to go into MIQ but the Ministry of Health will try their best to convince you to do so.

Ffs

Unless you can self-I isolate away from other members of your household (most people can’t as it’s pretty much impossible under any communal household situation) you have to go into mandatory quarantine - under stricter condition than border MIQ -in the Jet Park isolation facility . This is not controversial it is a fact. I don’t understand why you are arguing this.

Domestic MIQ capacity is evaporating faster than expected. I don't know what the solution to this would be, other than leave people at home now?

Maybe "Nightingale MIQ", i.e. stadia and other repurposed buildings? They can't shouldn't move people to hotels in other parts of the country as that would be a vector for spread into unaffected regions.

NZ was building custom MIQ facilties (and currently in discussions to speed the building work up) but these aren't yet complete.

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-jet-park-could-be-out-of-beds-tomorrow-but-theres-a-backup/IR5NUMNASD7GSVTG564BNQEMKA/

Jet Park defo needs a rebrand when this is all over.

"Jet Park" shudder

*There is an attitude of being in this together and uniting to get through to better times. Everyone has a job to do even if it is just staying home. It's a brilliant comms and marketing strategy and no matter how cynical you are, it cannot be denied that it has worked.

Much of it is cultural too, we are in the waka together and what matters is the people, he tangata he tangata*

Some of my Samoan friends in New Zealand have told they have been the target of racism. For them, it feels like the complete opposite of what you describe.

@PicsInRed

Yeah it'll be interesting to see what happens next as obviously there are going to be many more cases.

@MapleMay11

Yes that was in the news today. It's so awful. There definitely are racists here and most of us find it sickening.

I'm so sad for the Samoan community, more than half the current cases are in their community and they are already a very vulnerable group.

Please don't think that racists speak for all of us though.

Smells awfully like Schadenfreud.

Scotland (similar size) over 8000 deaths, multiple nationwide lockdowns, economy tanked.
New Zealand 26 deaths, few lockdowns, economy recovering well.

Delta has caused them some issues but to suggest it has been a failure is laughable. They need to do better with vaccinations, that's been their only issue.

I have to say the idea of being escorted to some anonymous hotel for a fortnight sounds grim.

The lack of any natural immunity would be my main concern if I lived in either Australia or NZ. Yes we've had an awful time in Europe but hopefully pretty much on the good side of it now. A mixture of brilliant vaccine roll out and much natural immunity thank God

Really hope you keep on top of this Kiwi's, but please do accept there was a huge measure of good luck as well as good leadership in your situation.

There seems to be a somewhat paternalistic attitude from some, that poor ignorant Kiwis are incapable of critical observation and thinking, and need to be shown the error of their ways. That's rather insulting, really. Those of that mindset have every right to their opinion and express it, but those who are not of that mindset have every right to their opinion, and to express it.

Personally, I respect that those living it, have a slightly more solid ground on which to base their opinion, than those 'observing it' from afar, and via the lens of their own somewhat biased media. . .