That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

This is a monumental failure on the part of the government and the excuse that the delay is due to altruism is utterly pathetic

I totally agree with pinktonic With such a small population, your vaccine programme should be done and dusted, and finished and everyone protected by now.

When our government stuffs up, as it does on a regular basis we bring it to their attention, we demand change/solutions and apologies. It is puzzling to see NZ not holding their own government to account for their clear failures. I have no political interest whatsoever in NZ governance but it seems undemocratic and even quite dangerous to me to stand by and carry on cheering on your 'wonderful leader' even as the covid noose around the nation becomes tighter and tighter.

Surely someone somewhere must be standing up for the people here, and their right not to be forced into MIQ/hard lockdowna/avoidable illness and all the other consequences when there is a perfectly good vaccine available to all....surely.

Turn the phone off, step outside, get some fresh air and count your own blessings @stepupandbecounted.

@stepupandbecounted - for crying out loud, will you give it a rest!! We are not interested in your ill-informed views. Surely you can find another thread to lambast people on?

@stepupandbecounted what is it that are are actually afraid of? Are you worried that the UK will go back into lockdown?

You don't live in NZ. In what way do their COVID strategies affect you?

Some of the comments on here are mental. I would guess that a lot of mumsnetters in NZ have spent a fair bit of time in the UK, so have an understanding of how defensive some people can get, but let me reassure you all… we don’t have lockdown fatigue like other parts of the world. We’re just hunkering down, getting through it, and are fine. Is it so alien for us to have faith in our government, that people who it doesn’t affect feel the need to attack it? As they say, get your own house in order

Why don't you answer my question, if everyone is so content and happy to stay in MIQ, and it is so comfortable and lovely why isn't it optional?

Well said Ginger.

I am in the fresh air by the lakes today and having a great day thanks, and I wondering why you are finding it so hard to look at a different point of view. Are you always like this?

Why not consider why we find the MIQ concept so deeply unappealing and illiberal rather than just shouting down the debate lime

I really think we are better off not engaging with @stepupandbecounted. They seem to have some sort of agenda going on and all we are doing is feeding it.

@stepupandbecounted

Why don't you answer my question, if everyone is so content and happy to stay in MIQ, and it is so comfortable and lovely why isn't it optional?

Time to step away from the thread @stepupandbecounted. You're starting to sound unhinged.

And to be fair it is quite alarming to watch NZ become a small version of China overnight. Your measures are way too draconian. Unbelievably hardcore and unnecessary. If you are cool with that, great, but that is more of a worry not less!

Answer the question:

Why can't you have a free choice whether to stay in an MIQ or not?

No one has answered yet, 25 pages in.

I think the phrase we’re all looking for is…

Anywaaaaaaaaaay …!

That story doesn’t say people are complaining they can’t get into MIQ fast enough, it just says that there is a queue to get them in now that cases have surged.

Well, when someone rings the media to say they 'have to wait' to get in it's logical to conclude they want to be in MIQ rather than at home. If they were happier at home they wouldn't bother calling the media to let them know.

Covid was always getting in, especially when Delta emerged.
Delta has been around since Christmas, so it's been kept out for 8 months. Yes, an incursion was expected at some point but it doesn't follow that an incursion means instantly to abandon the whole strategy as now useless.

You should all be fully vaccinated by now, but instead most are sitting ducks.
37 percent of the NZ population has had one vaccine dose, 21 percent of the NZ population has had two vaccine doses.
71 percent of the UK population has had one vaccine dose, 62 percent of the UK population has had two vaccine doses.
Neither population is 'all fully vaccinated'. The UK is a lot further ahead now but check in again in three months and see the difference.

The far more salient figures are that today there are 210 known active cases of Covid in New Zealand, which is under full temporary lockdown and 1277322 known active cases of Covid in the UK which has no restrictions at all. From a practical point of view, your unvaccinated population is currently much more at risk of catching Covid than ours. Again, check in again in three months and see the difference. Covid is a long game.

the excuse that the delay is due to altruism is utterly pathetic.

Numerous factors have contributed to NZ's vaccine rollout being slower than the UK's. Attributing the difference to one reason, whether altruism or incompetence, would just be silly.

The question shouldn’t be why do I care, but why don’t you. I don’t care about your politics, but mandatory isolation of sick people in government managed facilities is a draconian measure which hasn’t been imposed by other liberal democracies. The point here being that your government has no option but to go with a dubious and draconian practice because your country isn’t ready for Covid. After 18 months.

Well, it does have options. It could say everyone just has to live with Covid now, like every other liberal democracy did once elimination was no longer a possibility for them, regardless of how well or poorly vaccinated the population was at that point. Fortunately we're not quite in that position yet.

If I had a choice I'd rather live in NZ than the UK.

I don't get why some posters are so desperate to declare that NZ's strategy has failed, we have over 150K people dead here because of our shite speedrunning strategy.

Why can't you have a free choice whether to stay in an MIQ or not?

YOU DOOOOOO. Strong encouragement to do so is not the same as lack of choice.

@stepupandbecounted

I am in the fresh air by the lakes today and having a great day thanks, and I wondering why you are finding it so hard to look at a different point of view. Are you always like this? Why not consider why we find the MIQ concept so deeply unappealing and illiberal rather than just shouting down the debate lime

Why don't you take advantage of your nice location to go and take a walk, and do some deep breathing.

Your worrying over a country far away is unnecessary, and quite frankly, we don't need your hand wringing. NZ is doing OK. I can say that as someone who spent 6 months of the lockdown in the UK initially and then came over here. And spent 2 weeks in MIQ. I notice that you continue spouting misinformation over what MIQ is like with no response to my posts telling you what it is actually like.

By comparison with other parts of the world, we are doing great.

Yes, you just say anyway because it is SO much easier than the real answer.

You are not allowed to say no to MIQ are you, you are being coerced and forced into the facilities and have no other option. What does that say about your human rights or lack of, your democracy and your ability to live freely? All currently under threat or already taken away. It is a massive infringement of your civil liberty like or not.

Have you considered that the MIQ might be a good answer to any infectious disease? The next HIV or SARS outbreak or even a bad flu strain, now open and running the MIQ could be used and abused for any disease going forward in the 'national interest'. The fact you can not see what a dangerous path this is for your country is very telling/frightening to listen to.

You are not allowed to say no to MIQ are you, you are being coerced and forced into the facilities and have no other option.

LOL, can someone please do the secret blink pattern or hand signal to stepupandbecounted so she thinks she's finally gotten 'the truth' and drops the drama.

@stepupandbecounted

Answer the question:

Why can't you have a free choice whether to stay in an MIQ or not?

No one has answered yet, 25 pages in.

Because at first people were allowed to isolate at home but lots of people didn't so now it is managed. The first lot of Delta positives are in managed isolation but that's likely to change as the numbers increase, it might be more of a case of easing everyone into a new mode. We were totally free until last Tuesday but a week on people get it, they're complying. And don't fret for children and pets of those going into managed isolation, children go to and everyone is taken care of. I don't think you understand how nice people are here, we get looked after. Two weeks in a 4star hotel, all expenses covered, with medics on hand, that's a pretty good service if you ask me. We also have a heap of welfare packages available and loads of volunteers supporting the effort by shopping for people in isolation etc. Your idea that we are a mini China is mind-boggling. Life here is amazing.

If you’re genuinely feeling frightened @stepupandbecounted - is there a friend or family member you can reach out to for help?

I'd rather go to MIQ that die alone at home as people are starting to do in Sydney.

[quote disco123]@PinkTonic there's no need to be concerned about those who are as yet unvaccinated, because as you say, robust lockdown procedures are in place to protect them.

It's all very well saying vaccination should have been done more quickly, but none of us have a time machine.

So. Given the situation as it is right now, what is it exactly that you would like to see happening that would make you feel less anxious?[/quote]
I’m not ‘anxious’. Patronising much.

Your argument is back to front. Robust lockdown procedures to protect them? You have to have the most draconian and authoritarian measures in place now because if you get exponential spread you’re sitting ducks. If it works now you will have been very very lucky. Again. The fact that your government has put you in this position so far into the pandemic is unconscionable.

It staggers me how anyone can think NZ zero-covid policy has been a failure. All of these measures are tempory, emergency measures for a pandemic. Do we still have rationing or blackouts.... No, cos we're not in the bloody Blitz anymore. Governments have to take strong emergency decisions when in a crisis situation - it doesn't mean it'll last forever! Whilst NZ vaccine rollout is slow, to use their currently vaccinated percentages as if they are final numbers is wildly disingenuous - the vaccine rollout has only just opened to under 50s. Assessment of the levels of vaccine coverage and hesitancy can only be assessed in December when the rollout has reached it's final initial stages.

I would rather have followed zero-covid with a few weeks of short, very sharp lockdowns and months of everyday life relatively normal, no death and a functioning health service than the absolute shitshow of prolonged lockdowns, death and misery we've had in the UK for 18 months.

And when the vaccine rollout is complete, NZ will open up again, with very little death and trauma compared to the rest of the world - they'll learn to live with it with a population that's protected.

And whilst we're not in lockdown in the UK, if you've persuaded yourself we're back to normal you're deluding yourself - there are frequently whole regions without ICU beds or paediatric ICU beds available, we do not have a functional health service at the moment.

@StartupRepair

I'd rather go to MIQ that die alone at home as people are starting to do in Sydney.

Me too :(