That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

Without looking at it, is that where we raided the Covax vaccine stash when our own supply was getting too low? Not our finest hour 😳

@stepupandbecounted

I can see now that the Taliban have thanked New Zealand for offering financial aid ( 5 days ago) as the they take over Afghanistan. I am not sure it is being offered directly to the Taliban, but I wonder how they will ensure it is not misused...

Um I think the British government is also offering aid... That has LITERALLY nothing to do with COVID though and I have no idea why you have such fixed beliefs on something you seem to know little about

The information on donors in particular.

Again, there is a lot of information there and your statement is vague; is there a specific comparison chart you can link to or something? I'd like to answer your concern but don't have hours to hunt around looking for information and trying to guess what you're referring to.

@stepupandbecounted

I see this as human being someone carting me off to a government institution for testing positive would utterly terrify me. Who would look after my children and animals? It is the most hideous reaction, and one that will keep the whole of the country suspended in fear, over what is a cold for most people. I find that really scary having friends that live in Shanghai that experienced the same treatment. Leper colonies.

Yeah they just give your kids to someone else and kill your dogs. Fuck em Do you not think that this is all under control? You seem somewhat distressed about an imaginary situation.

😂😂😂@mbosnz

I’m a bit bemused by the posters here who are so black and white about things

The UK’s strategy for managing infections was pretty dire but the vaccination programme has been very good

NZ’s plan for elimination has served us very well but our vaccine roll out has been pretty shit and Delta will probably require us to reassess our strategy. As someone who has enjoyed 18 months of relative freedom and with a 75 year old dad who is immuno-compromised I’m glad we took the path we did.

However I am now in lockdown with 2 kids and a full time job to do and feeling a bit pissed off, but also hopeful that the vaccine roll out is ramping up and we’ll be able to see family in the UK next year.

Without looking at it, is that where we raided the Covax vaccine stash when our own supply was getting too low? Not our finest hour

Can you send some links to what you're talking about here?

@CheekyHobson

Without looking at it, is that where we raided the Covax vaccine stash when our own supply was getting too low? Not our finest hour

Can you send some links to what you're talking about here?

I’m not your secretary, Google it yourself 😂

@Gennz18

Without looking at it, is that where we raided the Covax vaccine stash when our own supply was getting too low? Not our finest hour 😳

No, I was trying to make the point that the GAVI programme was implemented in 2000. Since then 14 million deaths have been prevented through vaccination in developing countries. NZ became a donor in 2020 and the contribution has been minimal. For me, that's not the action of of a 'globally responsible citizen' when it comes to vaccination. I'm just trying to make the point that no country is perfect and it's OK for us all to acknowledge our government's failings.

It is the most hideous reaction, and one that will keep the whole of the country suspended in fear, over what is a cold for most people.

As much as you really seem to need us to be, we’re simply not all ‘suspended in fear’ at the prospect of being transferred to MIQ (read: being put up in a hotel for two weeks, with all our meals brought to us).

You know, in the comms that has gone out to schools in the last few days, they’ve been advised on how to spot ‘bad information’ (and to share this with their school communities).

One of the things to look out for, is ‘information that makes you feel fearful or angry’. ”Good information put out to help you make an informed choice won’t make you feel scared or angry. It’ll make you feel empowered.”

Your terror-filled posts are amusing to the likes of me. But they’re a questionable approach if you want to engage vulnerable groups, get people to think collectively, and/or genuinely change behaviour for the better.

Do you mean when NZ used 100,000 doses of Pfizer ordered through Covax to keep the vaccination schedule on track during delivery delays? And replaced the 100,000 Pfizer doses they took with 800,000 AstraZeneca doses that they'd decided not to use?

So the original commitment was to give 800,000 people in other countries free Pfizer doses and instead we've given 750,000 people in other countries free Pfizer doses plus 400,000 free AstraZeneca? Yes, shocking.

being transferred to MIQ (read: being put up in a hotel for two weeks, with all our meals brought to us)

Technically it's not even necessarily two weeks. They're kept in MIQ until they've been clear of symptoms for 48 hours and have returned two days of negative tests. So if symptoms have been minimal and virus clearance is quick, someone who has had Covid could be in and out of MIQ in a week.

@CheekyHobson

Do you mean when NZ used 100,000 doses of Pfizer ordered through Covax to keep the vaccination schedule on track during delivery delays? And replaced the 100,000 Pfizer doses they took with 800,000 AstraZeneca doses that they'd decided not to use?

So the original commitment was to give 800,000 people in other countries free Pfizer doses and instead we've given 750,000 people in other countries free Pfizer doses plus 400,000 free AstraZeneca? Yes, shocking.

The overall contribution to COVAX and to GAVI by New Zealand is indeed shocking but for the opposite reason you describe.

@CheekyHobson

Do you mean when NZ used 100,000 doses of Pfizer ordered through Covax to keep the vaccination schedule on track during delivery delays? And replaced the 100,000 Pfizer doses they took with 800,000 AstraZeneca doses that they'd decided not to use?

So the original commitment was to give 800,000 people in other countries free Pfizer doses and instead we've given 750,000 people in other countries free Pfizer doses plus 400,000 free AstraZeneca? Yes, shocking.

Yeah that’s what I mean.

When we took vaccine from supplies intended for developing nations because our own programme was so shit - not delayed, but slow - that we needed the supply to keep our already lacklustre (2nd last in the OECD) vaccination programme “on track” - and then replaced them with the AZ, a vaccine that we deemed not good enough for NZ.

That was what I was referring to

You mean the vaccine that's easier to store and transport in countries where the infrastructure isn't good?

No, I was trying to make the point that the GAVI programme was implemented in 2000. Since then 14 million deaths have been prevented through vaccination in developing countries. NZ became a donor in 2020 and the contribution has been minimal. For me, that's not the action of of a 'globally responsible citizen' when it comes to vaccination. I'm just trying to make the point that no country is perfect and it's OK for us all to acknowledge our government's failings.

I'm not familiar with the background but I'll accept your point (you could have just said that in the first place rather than sending me off to GAVI to try to work that out). I suppose 'globally responsible citizen' is a very broad term and NZ could have contributed more to this particular programme in the past (that would have been the decision of previous National and Labour governments though, not Labour under Jacinda Ardern). I'm not sure the contribution is 'minimal' either, it seems relative to population and economy size. So from that perspective, you could say NZ has substantially stepped up as a responsible global citizen under Ardern's leadership. I don't see Australia, Russia, China or a number of much larger economies on the list of donors, incidentally.

Also, this is one way of being globally responsible – and NZ may have contributed to similar programmes through different organisations. I'm not saying more couldn't have been done, but I don't have the expertise to judge fairly. If this is an issue you're passionate and knowledgable about, I'd like to learn more.

@Gennz18 I think all of the doses we've donated in the UK have been AZ but then that's what many of us have received here. Good enough for me!

Yeah I am not fussy but AZ has had a bad rap down here after the hiccups in Australia.

I find it so weird how the mildest constructive criticism of our Govt and Jacinda is treated by some NZers as some sort of high treason. Holding Governments to account is how a healthy democracy functions.

because our own programme was so shit - not delayed, but slow

What does that mean? My understanding is that the vaccine deliveries were literally coming in from overseas slower than expected – this was a known issue in June – so in order to keep up the same rate of vaccination, the government did some reallocation of vaccines they'd already received.

You seem to be saying that the government should have sent the 100,000 Pfizer doses to other countries as promised (meaning they would have had to pause NZ's vaccination rollout for a few days) instead of donating all the AstraZeneca. Would you have rather they did that and offered Kiwis the AstraZeneca instead?

Given we're currently putting 50,000 doses in arms a day, doing that would have put us, at best, a week ahead of schedule, assuming Kiwis were keen to have the AstraZeneca vaccine... given the hesitancy seen in Australia, I suspect most people would have chosen to wait an extra week for Pfizer.

I would rather the Govt had got their shit together and secured supply earlier so we could roll out the vaccine programme in a meaningful way from March.

I find it so weird how the mildest constructive criticism of our Govt and Jacinda is treated by some NZers as some sort of high treason.

This is wild exaggeration.

Holding Governments to account is how a healthy democracy functions.

This is completely accurate! However most of the criticism I've seen here isn't constructive at all.

"The government's done a shit job, they should have done better, they've been lazy and incompetent and slow" is just criticism. Constructive criticism includes a clear and detailed explanation of exactly where and how the failure happened, and what could/should have been done differently (based on expert knowledge of the situation) to produce a better result. I am yet to see a single convincing example of this.

I would rather the Govt had got their shit together and secured supply earlier so we could roll out the vaccine programme in a meaningful way from March.

Okay so how exactly do you propose they should have done that? I assume you have detailed insight to offer.

There really are some batshit posters on this thread. It's beyond me why people who don't even live here are so heavily invested in what is happening in NZ and Australia, and spend so much of their time researching every little thing they can think of to put us down.

Honestly, other than worrying about family and friends in the UK (and amazement over your leadership) we aren't interested in what is happening over there - yet you seem to think the whole world is watching the UK and should be following the same path. You bear no more relevance to most of us than any other country does - less in fact as you are so far away and we have much less in common than you seem to believe.

And in regard to people being 'forced' into MIQ, today's paper literally includes a story in which people complain that they cannot get into MIQ fast enough for their liking.

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-day-long-admission-queue-as-infected-wait-to-enter-auckland-jet-park-quarantine/QGWSSQLNTIXLWN5FQLGUMUUUTU/

A few posters on here need to calm the f down.
The hyperbole is unbelievable.
Step away from the internet and get some fresh air!

Is it being suggested that New Zealand out of pure altruism chose to let other countries more in need have its vaccines?

And if so, there are still so many other countries more in need than New Zealand who do not have anything like sufficient access to vaccines, so what has changed?

I did try to google but I can’t find anything saying NZ could have had an earlier and better supply but sacrificed these for the benefit of other nations. I have seen Jacinda Ardern saying Pfizer prioritised other countries, but that is not the same thing.