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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That New Zealand's strategy has failed

999 replies

JudesBiggestFan · 22/08/2021 23:21

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

OP posts:
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Gennz18 · 24/08/2021 20:23

@CheekyHobson I suspect it was bureaucratic incompetence as the order was placed in January when most of us were in holiday including Govt officials and ministers themselves. The premium I believe was $10 a dose. Not much in the context of lockdowns that costs billions a week. I suspect we were all enjoying a lovely covid free summer (I was) and they didn’t see the point in paying a higher rate. We’ve all been very complacent. Me included.

Pan2 · 24/08/2021 20:23

Failed??

NZ have saved 1,000s of lives. Johnson has killed 1,000s.

Crumbs.

PinkTonic · 24/08/2021 20:27

@CheekyHobson

The people isolating at home are those deemed close contacts. Everyone who is confirmed positive is transferred to mandatory Govt isolation until a negative covid test is returned. It is quite draconian.

No they are not, they are active cases. Look on the Ministry of Health website. 32 active cases currently at home or in self-isolation, 43 under 'Other'. They are not close contacts. Close contacts are not counted in case numbers.

There are 41 new cases of COVID-19 in the New Zealand community to confirm today. This brings the total number of cases in the community outbreak to 148

The total number of community cases in Auckland is now 137 and 11 in Wellington

All of the cases have or are being transferred safely to a managed isolation facility, under strict infection prevention and control procedures, including the use of full PPE

CheekyHobson · 24/08/2021 20:30

I suspect it was bureaucratic incompetence as the order was placed in January when most of us were in holiday including Govt officials and ministers themselves. The premium I believe was $10 a dose.

You honestly think they forgot or couldn't be bothered because they were on holiday. At a time when the media was full of reports of the massive resurgence of Covid in the UK and US. Honestly?

Once this lockdown lifts, you should be beating down the door of Parliament insisting on being employed in the relevant department so that incredibly clumsy oversights like this can be avoided. Imagine if they had had someone as onto-it as you there so that the pandemic response could be properly managed.

Or maybe there is just a little more to it than 'entire government department fails to make easy and inexpensive choice due to being off fishing'.

StoneofDestiny · 24/08/2021 20:31

NZ have saved 1,000s of lives. Johnson has killed 1,000s

Correct.

CheekyHobson · 24/08/2021 20:34

@PinkTonic

Maybe all the cases that day were happy to be transferred? I know I would be. If you're confused, tweet at Tova O'Brien to ask about it in today's press conference.

PinkTonic · 24/08/2021 20:39

[quote CheekyHobson]@PinkTonic

Maybe all the cases that day were happy to be transferred? I know I would be. If you're confused, tweet at Tova O'Brien to ask about it in today's press conference.[/quote]
I’m not in the least confused, it says the same every day and have heard it confirmed in the press conference.

CheekyHobson · 24/08/2021 20:45

So why does the Ministry of Health website clearly acknowledge that some people are not in MIQ? Here's the link.

www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases

Scroll down to 'Location of active cases'.

HarrietPierce · 24/08/2021 21:05

174 deaths in UK today and hospital admissions up by 10%.

PinkTonic · 24/08/2021 21:05

@CheekyHobson

So why does the Ministry of Health website clearly acknowledge that some people are not in MIQ? Here's the link.

www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases

Scroll down to 'Location of active cases'.

Maybe they are in the ‘are being transferred’ category at the point the site was updated? No idea. They confirm all cases have or are being transferred every day.
bogoffmda · 24/08/2021 21:12

To the HB mumsnetters - I want a mince and cheese pie from Jacksons in Havelock, a meat ball and some Rush Munroes ice cream!

If someone could just send me someone it would be appreciated!

And no one has killed anyone deliberately - governments made decisions and some decisions went better than others. Also every country counts COVID deaths differently which makes comparisions hard in the European countries.

Gennz18 · 24/08/2021 21:43

@CheekyHobson

I suspect it was bureaucratic incompetence as the order was placed in January when most of us were in holiday including Govt officials and ministers themselves. The premium I believe was $10 a dose.

You honestly think they forgot or couldn't be bothered because they were on holiday. At a time when the media was full of reports of the massive resurgence of Covid in the UK and US. Honestly?

Once this lockdown lifts, you should be beating down the door of Parliament insisting on being employed in the relevant department so that incredibly clumsy oversights like this can be avoided. Imagine if they had had someone as onto-it as you there so that the pandemic response could be properly managed.

Or maybe there is just a little more to it than 'entire government department fails to make easy and inexpensive choice due to being off fishing'.

That’s my theory yeah but if you have a better one I’m all ears.

If we were being a responsible global citizen we would vaccinate our people as quickly as possible so we could loosen immigration settings (reuniting visa holder families for example) while looking to help with global vaccination roll outs. Instead of resting on our covid free laurels and raiding Covax and gen our supplies got too low.

I rate Jacinda Ardern as a person, I think she is a great empathetic and very human leader, and particularly I rate her leadership skills in a crisis, but her Government have shown themselves to be quite shit when it comes to delivering big programmes of work.

Gennz18 · 24/08/2021 21:46

@CheekyHobson

So why does the Ministry of Health website clearly acknowledge that some people are not in MIQ? Here's the link.

www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases

Scroll down to 'Location of active cases'.

Given there were 42 cases reported yesterday and there are 42 listed as being at home/in self isolation, they probably haven’t been transferred to MIQ yet.
stepupandbecounted · 24/08/2021 21:57

I'm sure it was a gesture kindly made, humanitarily minded, and ain't going anywhere good. That's very different to supporting the Taliban

I entirely agree with this post from mbosnz it has happened to every country trying to help and ease the plight of so many in need. We have to be very careful going forward. For sure Russia and China will wade into this situation and use Afghanistan as a political football.

I say this gently, as we have all lost so much to covid, it is in reality becoming the least of our worries.

CheekyHobson · 24/08/2021 21:57

Maybe they are in the ‘are being transferred’ category at the point the site was updated? No idea. They confirm all cases have or are being transferred every day.

So it is hardly a militant exercise if cases are transferred over the course of days, then. I believe in last year's August outbreak, Dr Bloomfield did acknowledge there were a couple of individuals who absolutely refused to go to MIQ and completed supervised isolation at home.

I believe the process typically involves a case being identified, health workers visiting the home and explaining the standard procedures. People either immediately agree and head off to MIQ or there is a negotiation process during which the benefits are explained and questions answered and the person/people in question are given space to adjust.

At this point almost everyone accepts 'all right, this is the best option'. In the case of someone completely opposed, they are not actually marched into MIQ under police guard (though might be unless the person isolating then proceeds to break the rules of self-isolation).

Most people when confronted with the reality of managing their Covid infection at home under strict supervision decide MIQ is not such a horrifying prospect after all. There has been a noted absence of post-MIQ Covid patients running to the media or getting on social media to complain that their human rights were abused by the process.

In the bigger picture, given that state, federal or government-mandated quarantine is within the legal framework of most countries around the world, what is your exact problem with the fact that NZ is using it right now? Most countries in this pandemic never even had the option of using it because a) the spread of the virus has been too wide to make it practical and b) they aren't running an elimination strategy. NZ's current elimination strategy is supported by the solid majority of the country and nobody who has been through Covid MIQ appears to be upset by the experience. So what actual 'human rights abuse' has occurred?

stepupandbecounted · 24/08/2021 22:00

I see this as human being someone carting me off to a government institution for testing positive would utterly terrify me. Who would look after my children and animals? It is the most hideous reaction, and one that will keep the whole of the country suspended in fear, over what is a cold for most people. I find that really scary having friends that live in Shanghai that experienced the same treatment. Leper colonies.

PinkTonic · 24/08/2021 22:08

@CheekyHobson

Maybe they are in the ‘are being transferred’ category at the point the site was updated? No idea. They confirm all cases have or are being transferred every day.

So it is hardly a militant exercise if cases are transferred over the course of days, then. I believe in last year's August outbreak, Dr Bloomfield did acknowledge there were a couple of individuals who absolutely refused to go to MIQ and completed supervised isolation at home.

I believe the process typically involves a case being identified, health workers visiting the home and explaining the standard procedures. People either immediately agree and head off to MIQ or there is a negotiation process during which the benefits are explained and questions answered and the person/people in question are given space to adjust.

At this point almost everyone accepts 'all right, this is the best option'. In the case of someone completely opposed, they are not actually marched into MIQ under police guard (though might be unless the person isolating then proceeds to break the rules of self-isolation).

Most people when confronted with the reality of managing their Covid infection at home under strict supervision decide MIQ is not such a horrifying prospect after all. There has been a noted absence of post-MIQ Covid patients running to the media or getting on social media to complain that their human rights were abused by the process.

In the bigger picture, given that state, federal or government-mandated quarantine is within the legal framework of most countries around the world, what is your exact problem with the fact that NZ is using it right now? Most countries in this pandemic never even had the option of using it because a) the spread of the virus has been too wide to make it practical and b) they aren't running an elimination strategy. NZ's current elimination strategy is supported by the solid majority of the country and nobody who has been through Covid MIQ appears to be upset by the experience. So what actual 'human rights abuse' has occurred?

Right so you’ve gone from no it definitely doesn’t happen, through it does happen but they coerce them rather than drag them kicking and screaming, to anyway nobody has complained. Ok.
CheekyHobson · 24/08/2021 22:11

I guess there are different definitions of 'responsible global citizen' then.

Mine involves maintaining a Covid-free status within physical borderes and rolling out vaccines at a delay while countries in greater need of urgent vaccination get earlier access.

Yours involves pushing for vaccine priority so that NZ citizens and residents can enter the country faster (I think this is actually more of a nationalistic position than 'responsible global citizen' though).

I think assuming that the people who work professionally in health and government missed an 'obvious' course of action due to their ignorance and/or laziness rather than because they were in possession of a much more detailed understanding of the real situation than citizens who have no experience in either field is the Dunning-Kruger effect in action, much like the self-appointed vaccine experts who do their 'research' on YouTube.

CheekyHobson · 24/08/2021 22:17

Right so you’ve gone from no it definitely doesn’t happen, through it does happen but they coerce them rather than drag them kicking and screaming, to anyway nobody has complained. Ok.

No, I've gone from 'People are not actually forced to do it' to 'People are not actually forced to do it.'

You've used the words 'coerced' and you seem to think that people are being 'forced' to go – what's that based on? Who do you know who feels they have been coerced? What evidence do you have that people are forced? Do you actually know anyone who's had Covid in NZ? I do, and they were immensely grateful for and happy with the way their experience was managed.

CheekyHobson · 24/08/2021 22:22

I see this as human being someone carting me off to a government institution for testing positive would utterly terrify me. Who would look after my children and animals? It is the most hideous reaction, and one that will keep the whole of the country suspended in fear, over what is a cold for most people. I find that really scary having friends that live in Shanghai that experienced the same treatment. Leper colonies.

Lol the hysteria here is amazing.
'Carted' vs 'transferred'
'government institution' vs 'hotel with medical facilities'
'hideous reaction' vs 'virus management strategy'
'suspended in fear' vs 'protected from virus spread'
'leper colonies' vs 'two-week medically managed isolation'.

Don't worry, children and animals are not left to fend for themselves, the kids go to the hotel if both parents are infected or stay at home with the uninfected parent or bubble with other relatives. Pets are kennelled. Honestly, get a grip.

CheekyHobson · 24/08/2021 22:25

Given there were 42 cases reported yesterday and there are 42 listed as being at home/in self isolation, they probably haven’t been transferred to MIQ yet.

It's not 42 at home or in self-isolation. It's 32 at home or in self-isolation and an additional 43 in 'other'. 75 altogether. So clearly a variety of situations are in play.

MapleMay11 · 24/08/2021 22:27

@CheekyHobson

I guess there are different definitions of 'responsible global citizen' then.

Mine involves maintaining a Covid-free status within physical borderes and rolling out vaccines at a delay while countries in greater need of urgent vaccination get earlier access.

Yours involves pushing for vaccine priority so that NZ citizens and residents can enter the country faster (I think this is actually more of a nationalistic position than 'responsible global citizen' though).

I think assuming that the people who work professionally in health and government missed an 'obvious' course of action due to their ignorance and/or laziness rather than because they were in possession of a much more detailed understanding of the real situation than citizens who have no experience in either field is the Dunning-Kruger effect in action, much like the self-appointed vaccine experts who do their 'research' on YouTube.

If you consider New Zealand to be a 'responsible global citizen' when it comes to vaccination, it would be wise to take a look at the GAVI website.
pollyglot · 24/08/2021 22:42

I see this as human being someone carting me off to a government institution for testing positive would utterly terrify me. Who would look after my children and animals? It is the most hideous reaction, and one that will keep the whole of the country suspended in fear, over what is a cold for most people. I find that really scary having friends that live in Shanghai that experienced the same treatment. Leper colonies.

I can't believe that anyone could write such hyperbole on a public forum. A wonderful example to discuss with my English Language class. Thanks for that.

CheekyHobson · 24/08/2021 22:48

If you consider New Zealand to be a 'responsible global citizen' when it comes to vaccination, it would be wise to take a look at the GAVI website.

It's an extensive website, what particular comparisons are you wanting me to look at?

MapleMay11 · 24/08/2021 22:52

@CheekyHobson

If you consider New Zealand to be a 'responsible global citizen' when it comes to vaccination, it would be wise to take a look at the GAVI website.

It's an extensive website, what particular comparisons are you wanting me to look at?

The information on donors in particular.
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