That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

@AmorFati

ski4130 I'm in Napier! It has been the good life here, even now in lockdown my local wine shop is doing deliveries.

I'm enjoying stepupandbecounted's posts, I'm tired of Netflix, it's a nice change.

I am in Havelock and also receiving very welcome wine deliveries.

Enjoy the winter sunshine

@Ski4130

Waves to *@AmorFati* 🙂 I’ve been trying not to regret my life choices as friends and family in HB posted their pics during our UK lockdowns, was definitely missing the open spaces & our view of Te Mata peak then!!

I will give your regards to Te Mata Peak and you can give mine to the UK - love NZ but still miss UK.

[quote Ski4130]@stepupandbecountedtrue, fair point, and we offloaded what felt like about 5000 teens down to Boardmasters last week, so it was marginally quieter![/quote]
How interesting. There’s a thread elsewhere about how many of the teens returned from that festival with COVID and are now all isolating.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4330368-Boardmasters-Festival-superspreader-event

And another about GP surgeries still only offering video consultations.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4331134-To-think-issues-relating-to-safeguarding-will-shoot-up-if-GPs-continue-with-telephone-appointments

Seems that the claims earlier in this thread about everything in the UK being completely fine and dandy and wholly back to normal might just have been a teensy, tiny bit exaggerated…

[quote Ski4130]@stepupandbecountedtrue, fair point, and we offloaded what felt like about 5000 teens down to Boardmasters last week, so it was marginally quieter![/quote]
And now the map has turned purple! In the cotswolds!

It’s not about back to normal though it’s more like the stages of grief and ending up with acceptance.
Covid isn’t going anywhere and rightly or wrongly reaching a point where that is accepted and a certain number of cases/hospitalisations/deaths are amalgamated into normal life.

New Zealand have been brilliant so far but Delta and the acceptance by the majority of the rest of the world means it needs a strategy to navigate it

The problem of course is vaccines work to prevent serious illness not transmission so you cannot rely on it alone

Yep, of the 15 kids we know who went, 8 are now + for Covid, so the claims the UK are back to normal certainly haven’t come from me!

Depends what you mean by “back to normal”.

It’s not 2019 again. People still catch covid. You still have to test and isolate if you get symptoms. Lots of things are still done remotely.

But currently there are no restrictions or social distancing. Theatres and and sporting event are full. I can meet as many people as I want to inside.

It feels far closer to normal than it has done since March 2020. I don’t think that poster was exaggerating. It feels fucking great, actually (and I’m a pro-new zealander).

This twitter threaad is very interesting about the current lockdown, how they are tracing and what will happen next.

In two months they will have reached our vaccine level, hopefully without many deaths.

Their contact tracing sounds completely amazing! (FFS Serco )

twitter.com/DrJinRussell/status/1429945207273910276

I also think that some people mistake consensus, and popular agreement with the covid policy and strategy, for people mindlessly following, a la, 'sheeples'. Kiwis are a pretty relaxed bunch - right up until they're not.

Basically, in NZ, what you're seeing, is a genuine democracy in action, so duly elected leaders (by MMP, not FPP) leading, the population agreeing with the direction mandated by leadership, and complying. It possibly helps not having Hancock or Cummings in the mix.

Basically, in NZ, what you're seeing, is a genuine democracy in action, so duly elected leaders (by MMP, not FPP) leading, the population agreeing with the direction mandated by leadership, and complying

What I’m seeing is people apparently falling in with some pretty illiberal policies actually. I think NZ is the only liberal democracy to impose mandatory quarantine on positive cases. Obviously since such a small % of the population is vaccinated and healthcare hasn’t been prepared for an major surge, the stakes are currently astronomically high. Let’s hope you all stay so chilled until it’s under control.

@PinkTonic

Basically, in NZ, what you're seeing, is a genuine democracy in action, so duly elected leaders (by MMP, not FPP) leading, the population agreeing with the direction mandated by leadership, and complying

What I’m seeing is people apparently falling in with some pretty illiberal policies actually. I think NZ is the only liberal democracy to impose mandatory quarantine on positive cases. Obviously since such a small % of the population is vaccinated and healthcare hasn’t been prepared for an major surge, the stakes are currently astronomically high. Let’s hope you all stay so chilled until it’s under control.

I'm pretty happy to follow these policies; I don't care if they're illiberal.

The reason I don't care is because I have had more freedom over the last year in New Zealand than I had in the UK soon after the pandemic started.

Now, seeing as I'm living in the UK, at present, I'm more concerned about illiberal policies as reflected in the UK, new Police, Crimes, Sentencing and Courts bill, and the Nationality and Borders bill. . .

ski our post GCSE crowd went to Reading festival and some to Woodstock this year (I couldn't face the M5 after our last jaunt to Cornwall took 6 hours) so far everyone has stayed well. I hope your group are feeling okay. Do they have hang out together to isolate? Some of our friends did the covid camp out as they had six testing positive together, so rotated and made it much more fun. None seem to be properly ill, I hope that is the same for you.
Our teens are now being jabbed, and so I imagine we will soon consider the younger bracket too. Kids seem to be partying literally like it is 1969!

One of the scientists just said on R4 that he would have preferred festivals to wait until the 16-17 brackets were vaccinated, but he would still have given it the green light anyway, siting the importance of teens getting their lives back, and having fun again. So that was good to hear there is proper support, and no hospitalisations. So all good.

Very much hope the world can start to relax a little now the vaccines seem to be holding out against the worst of it anyway.

Arden is a complete lunatic.
She even donated money to the Taliban.

people apparently falling in with some pretty illiberal policies actually. I think NZ is the only liberal democracy to impose mandatory quarantine on positive cases this policy is not illiberal, IMO. It is restrictive, but no more illiberal than UK border quarantine policy. A policy is not automatically illiberal because it restricts people, it is about the trade off between the action and the reason for the action. We are all restricted all the time, and more serious restrictions are in place to counter more serious harms. NZ government deemed high deaths to be a harm, Uk government didn't give a shit, the policy differences flow from that difference.

She even donated money to the Taliban

Why????
I hope that is a joke? And if it is, pretty poor taste given how many poor Afghans are losing their lives right now being crushed to death trying to leave. It is an epic humanitarian disaster unfolding as we speak.

Part of the reason the Taliban were so quick to take over so aggressively was due to the fact they were very 'well funded' I think most people assumed it would be from Qatar and Pakistan, I am not sure many would imagine it was donated by New Zealand

I'd want a fucking credible source supporting that statement, before I thought anything other than the person making that statement was absolutely fucking demented, and a conspiracy theorist of the highest order.

Ardern gave money to the Red Cross and UN Refugee Agency in Afghanistan.

Apply logic @stepupandbecounted, why would NZ be in favour of the Taliban government?

I can see now that the Taliban have thanked New Zealand for offering financial aid ( 5 days ago) as the they take over Afghanistan. I am not sure it is being offered directly to the Taliban, but I wonder how they will ensure it is not misused...

@FreshFreesias

Arden is a complete lunatic. She even donated money to the Taliban.

Who?

@stepupandbecounted

I can see now that the Taliban have thanked New Zealand for offering financial aid ( 5 days ago) as the they take over Afghanistan. I am not sure it is being offered directly to the Taliban, but I wonder how they will ensure it is not misused...

You would think the UN has experience of this, they work in all sorts of places.

Of course they thanked her, but who do you believe? Ardern or the Taliban?

@stepupandbecounted when you say I am not sure it is being offered directly to the Taliban it is of course not being offered direct to the Taliban. It also has not been handed in cash, it is sitting in a UN bank account and Red Cross bank account.

@lannistunut

people apparently falling in with some pretty illiberal policies actually. I think NZ is the only liberal democracy to impose mandatory quarantine on positive cases this policy is not illiberal, IMO. It is restrictive, but no more illiberal than UK border quarantine policy. A policy is not automatically illiberal because it restricts people, it is about the trade off between the action and the reason for the action. We are all restricted all the time, and more serious restrictions are in place to counter more serious harms. NZ government deemed high deaths to be a harm, Uk government didn't give a shit, the policy differences flow from that difference.

this policy is not illiberal, IMO. It is restrictive, but no more illiberal than UK border quarantine policy

It’s nothing like the UK border quarantine policy, which NZ also has. I’m talking about incarcerating people who have tested positive but aren’t hospital cases. Like China.

Ian It is my understanding that all charities are withdrawing from Afghanistan with immediate effect and the charity workers are part of the delegation that are being evacuated. The banking systems, food supply chains, medical contracts etc are just about to collapse without immediate intervention from the west, which does not look forthcoming at the moment.

The next 48 hours will be critical. If the Taliban are prepared to make some concessions and guarantees, there may be hope - but that is far from agreed as far as I could tell from the last update.

So, money was given to aid the people of Afghanistan, via the UN and Red Cross. Not exactly handing over the dosh to the Taliban for the express purposes of purchasing guns and ammunition, is it?