That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

Love your username @CheekyHobson - I was trying to find that movie for 12YO DS just this weekend, who loves the theme song. It appears no platforms are showing it!

What is about you that has to make everything black or white. You can't seem to grasp the middle tones of grey.

Given that you have spent this entire tone repeating more and more hysterically that New Zealanders must wake up and realise they can't stay locked down forever, to which New Zealanders repeatedly respond that we've hardly been locked down so far and we're not planning or expecting or even hoping to be locked down for much longer, let alone forever, I feel that you may projecting with the whole black-and-white thinking thing.

Love your username @CheekyHobson - I was trying to find that movie for 12YO DS just this weekend, who loves the theme song. It appears no platforms are showing it!

Oh thanks, it's a classic! I think you can find it on Google Play.

It isn't the being an island per se it is location, population size and density. We've had very low rates in Cornwall and Scottish Highlands now please tell me you understand why?!

Cornwall now has higher than uk average.

As has been said repeatedly we all have different circumstances circumstances so, it is more intelligent to compare us to say Spain, France and Italy, pop all similar in size and demographics and all who have had comparable infection and death stats

Germany is the most EU country like the UK, strange how supporters of the UK's strategy, chose Spain over Germany when making the comparison.
France has had approx 200 less deaths per million than UK thats a lot less funerals.

Probably a big difference is a far better health service and better overall health entering the pandemic but thats a political choice.... again.

CheekyHobson Given that you (stepupandbecounted)have spent this entire tone repeating more and more hysterically that New Zealanders must wake up and realise they can't stay locked down forever, to which New Zealanders repeatedly respond that we've hardly been locked down so far and we're not planning or expecting or even hoping to be locked down for much longer, let alone forever, I feel that you may projecting with the whole black-and-white thinking thing.

This

The problem they have is it's endemic all over the world now. So unless they're cut off from the rest of the world forever, they've just delayed the inevitable.

@boobot1

The problem they have is it's endemic all over the world now. So unless they're cut off from the rest of the world forever, they've just delayed the inevitable.

Delaying the inevitable until their vaccination program is further progressed seems like a rational plan.

Much more rational than delaying the very first lockdown and allowing the virus to get completely out of hand back in spring 2020, in my opinion.

So unless they're cut off from the rest of the world forever, they've just delayed the inevitable.

Yes, delaying the inevitable has literally been the exact plan all along. Delaying widespread incursion of the virus until as many people as possible are fully vaccinated avoids thousands or tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths and severe illness. It doesn't mean you can avoid all death and illness of course, but you can massively reduce it. That's it. That's the whole plan.

I'm getting my first vaccine dose tomorrow morning. Must remember to take bolt cutters with me to break in to the vaccine centre.

Interesting point made by someone above about a weak national media here in NZ - there is just 1 national newspaper here! There's also the national radio station which is good and I think there is largish local paper or 2. Nothing like the UK with your many newspapers with all views represented. In the UK the govt is criticised all the time but in NZ, with only 1 national paper, not so much. The radio will have interviews with the opposition etc but generally the media is not diverse or challenging and agrees with the status quo. And given that the media are so influential over what people think, well I would say that's got a lot to do with people's relative compliance here and the defensiveness of kiwis on here!
I'm british, living in NZ and desperate to leave

Yeah, but there's a lot more to criticise about the UK government. I mean, Johnson is in charge of it FFS.

perhaps that's why there's more criticism.

@LimeRedBanana and @CheekyHobson

You can also find it here - hopefully it works for wherever you are.

https://ondemand.nzfilm.co.nz/search.html?q=Footrot+flats

Certainly worked for me in Australia for a recent Came A Hot Friday indulgence

@turfsausage

Interesting point made by someone above about a weak national media here in NZ - there is just 1 national newspaper here! There's also the national radio station which is good and I think there is largish local paper or 2. Nothing like the UK with your many newspapers with all views represented. In the UK the govt is criticised all the time but in NZ, with only 1 national paper, not so much. The radio will have interviews with the opposition etc but generally the media is not diverse or challenging and agrees with the status quo. And given that the media are so influential over what people think, well I would say that's got a lot to do with people's relative compliance here and the defensiveness of kiwis on here! I'm british, living in NZ and desperate to leave

Newspapers aren't really a thing anymore. Most publishing is online. The main sources are Stuff, NZ Herald, RNZ, Newshub and Newsroom.

What you really seem to be saying is that it's no good because it is not the same as England which is the attitude of a lot of English migrants, very arrogant and very tedious.

What you really seem to be saying is that it's no good because it is not the same as England

England The UK

No, it's no good due to the lack of critical analysis, dissenting views and investigative journalism.

the attitude of a lot of English migrants, very arrogant and very tedious.

@TheKeatingFive

though not as much due to the channel tunnel, road freight of food and essentials and being a travel hub

Not to mention a land border with the EU it couldn’t close.

When all that stuff is added up, I honestly don’t see how much of a significant difference restricting travel would have made.

What people frequently overlook is that the major advantage NZ in March 2020 was time. No western country took anything seriously until we saw the scenes from Italian hospitals. By that stage, the U.K. was already seeded with thousands of cases. NZ had lower incidences at the point where lockdowns were becoming normalised over the world. That, more than anything, gave them an advantage.

Exactly. Especially this bit:

Not to mention a land border with the EU it couldn’t close

I don’t know how people can’t seem to grasp the simple point that the UK is not an island in the relevant sense of having no border with any other country.

Two things are perfectly obvious:

1. the UK could not realistically achieve what NZ has.
2. The UK could however have done much much better than it did.

As I said upthread, I think NZ has gone a great job and I think they’ll get on top of this latest outbreak and buy themselves more time to vaccinate. The lockdowns are strict but come with the benefit that most of the time New Zealanders can walk round without restrictions or having to worry about covid. Of course it won’t last forever but it’s definitely been the right strategy for them.

Just on takeaways though - in the first lockdown takeaway deliveries were helpful to those who weren’t able to get supermarket deliveries or have support from other households to provide them with food. NZ may well have something better in place for the vulnerable than we did in the UK, but it isn’t necessarily just about the middle classes enjoying Dominos. And I do agree with stepup that restrictions ought to be evidence based.

@PicsInRed and @stepupandbecounted seem weirdly invested in watching NZ fail, do you not have a lot going on in your own life/country or something?

For a small country with a tiny media industry we have plenty of robust debate and discussion. In fact in the last lockdown Kiwis slammed the media for its “over critical” approach of Ardern.

Yes, delaying the inevitable has literally been the exact plan all along. Delaying widespread incursion of the virus until as many people as possible are fully vaccinated

It is a shame then that you have squandered such a huge amount of time by only vaccinating a mere 19% of the population - what a terrible outcome when so many countries have nearly finished, and are now moving on to the next booster vaccine.
Why aren't you more angry about that lost opportunity? Just asking, I am not suggesting you should be angry or demand better, but I do find it is so intriguing that you are happy to sit in any kind of lockdown, and put up with your borders being closed for so long, potentially indefinitely when a perfectly good vaccine has been available now for a solid 14 months!!! With such a tiny population to cover, you should have been among the first to be finished, and completed the programme months ago effortlessly, and enjoying a normal carefree vaccinated life now.

It is smacks of apathy or something I can't quite put my finger on, but the lack of questions and challenges is never a good sign in any country.

We would not be putting up with this in the UK that much I do know!! We would have been up in arms if our government had screwed up such an important and essential part of the recovery - and yet you are decidedly indifferent and seem to support the lack of liberty and your rights being stripped away to the hilt, and a slow and lacklustre vaccine roll out is unbelievable given what is happening around the world.

NZ have some serious questions to ask themselves - one newspaper does not offer a challenging perspective on the government narrative clearly, and so who does challenge government decisions if there is so much compliance on everything? Even things that are clearly going wrong like the vaccine rollout and the zero covid strategy?

You are worryingly complacent. Obviously I don't live there now, but I do care about NZ and people in the UK care otherwise they would not bother to post. You might see it as a backhanded compliment, if you don't agree with what we are saying, but perhaps be at least open to a different point of view at least. At least keep an open mind.

Have spent 19 pages of this thread being surprised, then shocked, then laughing at the fact that some UK based mumsnetters not only think they can speak with authority on NZ, the NZ people and how they’re dealing with the pandemic, but then argue back to actual NZ residents that they’re wrong when they say they’re doing alright.

As a NZ resident now living back in the UK, I can hand on heart say that I’d rather have spent the pandemic in Hawkes Bay, living a relatively normal life, than locked up for 18 months in the Cotswolds! The schadenfreude is strong on this thread 🙂

Kia Kaha Aotearoa, you keep doing you, she’ll be right!

There is no one in the Cotswolds ski they are all in Santorini or sailing in Mustique!

Can confirm that’s not true @stepupandbecounted there are too many people in the Cotswolds for comfort at the moment 🙂

ski4130 I'm in Napier! It has been the good life here, even now in lockdown my local wine shop is doing deliveries.

I'm enjoying stepupandbecounted's posts, I'm tired of Netflix, it's a nice change.

We would not be putting up with this in the UK that much I do know!! We would have been up in arms if our government had screwed up such an important and essential part of the recovery

Weird comment! I've been amazed by the general apathy surrounding delays in locking down (resulting in thousands of unnecessary deaths), care homes, lack of PPE, cronyism/back channel scandals, effect on our economy...all successfully deflected/minimised by referring to our "world beating" vax programme.

A propos of which, I also remind you that many countries have overtaken us on vax, including of course several EU countries.

I live in the Cotswolds, and apart from a few tourists pottering around it has pretty much emptied out to the islands in Greece! I suppose it depends where you are unless you are trying to get served in Daylesford, most of our surrounding villages are very quiet, but we have very few holiday cottages here. Currently the only sound apart from the birds was from my neighbour who decided to mow her lawn at 8am as it is hot today :)

Waves to @AmorFati 🙂 I’ve been trying not to regret my life choices as friends and family in HB posted their pics during our UK lockdowns, was definitely missing the open spaces & our view of Te Mata peak then!!

@stepupandbecountedtrue, fair point, and we offloaded what felt like about 5000 teens down to Boardmasters last week, so it was marginally quieter!