That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

Enjoy the beach and the sunshine @standupandbecounted.

I’m hopeful we’ll get this outbreak under control, but yes, eventually we’ll open up and some more of us will catch it, but hopefully we’ll be well prepared by then.

@stepupandbecounted

You are trapped in your country and unable to leave, without an exit date even suggested so it could be years away. Your lockdowns are so ridiculously strict that takeaways are not even allowed and vaccine centres are shut. That sounds pretty hardcore and terrifying from here to be honest, and more like China values system than a democratic western country. The fact you are so relaxed and comfortable about it makes it even worse. It is like you are being stripped of your liberties without even questioning the need for any of this. It is worrying from here to observe the pointless rules and lack of long term planning for delta and other variants in NZ.

Bloody hell! where have you been living? or just a short memory?

We in the UK have had at least 14 months in lockdown, kids locked in uni halls, schools shut, no foreign tourism, queuing to shop, no weddings, funerals, 2 Christmases wrecked, unable to be with loved ones as they die... and yet still 150k dead, 100 die a day, thats over 30k per year, an nhs with 6m on waiting lists, est to be 13m before too long.

Whether NZ is small or not, they have handled CV far better than the UK, along with many other countries far bigger and more densely populated.

You sound slightly deranged.

The UK have not been in a lockdown for 14 months - both christmases were amazing thanks - we have massive sporting events, festivals, weddings, parties and all the rest for months now. I am not sure where you are getting the idea we have had anything different. Clearly you don't live in the UK or know anything about it!
We actually have 91% of the adult population with antibodies, we are living a completely normal life again - overseas holidays included. So in a very different place and really enjoying the summer thanks

I am sorry you are feeling the strain folks, but at some point a change of direction is going to be needed. It might be better to prepare for that folks rather than arguing the toss on the internet. Delta is going a game changer. You heard it here first.

Must go! Have a good day

Why do people say two Christmasses?? It's only been Christmas 2020??

@stepupandbecounted

Yes now we have some freedoms but for many months the UK has had plenty of very harsh restrictions, whilst NZ did not - sounds like you may have been one of those who ignored them all.

@stepupandbecounted I really don't think this thread is helping you. Things are going to be fine. It's all good! Go out, relax. Some sun and some fresh air will make everything look a little brighter.

we are living a completely normal life again

Extraordinary level of wishful thinking on display here.

2 Christmases wrecked

Say what now? Where are you getting this second Christmas?

Borderingonmadness I don't think you are the deranged one here as
@stepupandbecounted dubs you. In fact you sound eminently sane.

@TheKeatingFive

2 Christmases wrecked

Say what now? Where are you getting this second Christmas?

Poster was in Wuhan? or a typo? lol!

@TheKeatingFive

2 Christmases wrecked

Say what now? Where are you getting this second Christmas?

Yes sorry, been a long 18 months, my dad died Christmas 2019, got things a little mixed.

I am not the one locked down disco or unvaccinated, or about to be hit with the motherfucker that is delta.

I am totally relaxed about covid, and the UK plan and I am less impressed with the plan the NZ government have for you guys, and perhaps work on your critical thinking skills and start questioning things a little before it is too late....ciao

@lannistunut

even if we don't agree with your illiberal policies I don't believe the UK has followed liberal policies, it has followed laissez-faire policies which has resulted in some very illiberal outcomes.

Given that so many U.K. residents stuck two fingers up at the rules anyway, even at the height of the pandemic and well before anyone was vaccinated, I don’t see how more stringent rules would necessarily have worked.

You only had to see the signs outside supermarkets - ‘Please wear a face covering, unless you are exempt.’ Any bugger could say, if asked, that they were exempt. I saw masses who I would swear had nothing wrong with them, who evidently didn’t give a fuck.

Compare that with France last summer (we drove to a BiL’s place when it was allowed) - signs read ‘Masks obligatory.’ No fannying about with ‘please’. And people complied.

Another factor is that in a good many countries, people are a lot more wary of the police than most U.K. residents are.

We've had one Chrstmas in lockdown, yeah it was a bit shit, but not as shit as Spring 2020 which was to be fair utter tripe. 2019 Christmas was pre covid and therefore fab and 2021 Christmas is tracking along to be normal again thank goodness. 🎉

40 die a day, WITH not of covid i.e. of any cause, within 28 days of a positive test. This is only 0.1% of tested infections. The vaccinations are working.

Too many died in the UK, who did not need to die. The intial response was woefully inept and lacking in imagination (i.e. the imagination to anticipate what was coming down the line, apply a "value" to information coming from the then centre of the pandemic and act accordingly). Not stopping the flights early on, and making claims that this would be somehow racist or xenophobic is unforgivable and probably the biggest failure of the UK government, next to discharging covid positive patients into care home settings and leaving people at home until they were "blue", gaslighting them that they couldn't have covid as there wasn't much of it in the UK ...even though almost no one could access a test even when dreadfully ill, so we actually had no idea how much covid was circulating.

One wonders if the government thought they could simply negotiate and bluster their way out of a viral pandemic as if it were Brexit negotiations.

The vaccination development and administration programme however has turned out to be a masterstroke, so swings and roundabouts.

Another factor is that in a good many countries, people are a lot more wary of the police than most U.K. residents are.

Lots of MN wanted police road blocks and the army on the street forgetting that many other countries have a larger and better funded police force.

@stepupandbecounted

I am not the one locked down disco or unvaccinated, or about to be hit with the motherfucker that is delta.

I am totally relaxed about covid, and the UK plan and I am less impressed with the plan the NZ government have for you guys, and perhaps work on your critical thinking skills and start questioning things a little before it is too late....ciao

I'm not sure what plans NZ has for me given that I don't live there, but do enlighten me!

It's good that you're happy living in the UK and with how things have been handled. That's fantastic. Each country needs its own approach. New Zealanders are also generally really satisfied with how things are being handled, so you don't need to worry about them either. You seem to have a few misperceptions or misunderstandings about what's actually going on, so perhaps if you read a little more about their strategy and situation from NZ newspapers and government documents online, you might feel a little calmer about everything.

perhaps work on your critical thinking skills

It’s interesting how this term is gradually being appropriated by people who don’t demonstrate any themselves, presumably because they don’t actually understand what it means.

Good article on Guardian, from a Brit living in Aotearoa:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/24/why-were-happy-hobbits-in-jacindas-mysterious-socialist-hermit-kingdom

[quote mbosnz]Good article on Guardian, from a Brit living in Aotearoa:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/24/why-were-happy-hobbits-in-jacindas-mysterious-socialist-hermit-kingdom[/quote]
Oh dear, @stepupandbecounted will spiral off into the abyss, reading that article.

#deepbreaths

Yes really good article on a brit living in NZ including the oft trotted out 'And if any British people think that’s down to New Zealand’s being an island, they might want to take a look at the shape of their own country on a map'

.

It isn't the being an island per se it is location, population size and density. We've had very low rates in Cornwall and Scottish Highlands now please tell me you understand why?!

As has been said repeatedly we all have different circumstances circumstances so, it is more intelligent to compare us to say Spain, France and Italy, pop all similar in size and demographics and all who have had comparable infection and death stats.

It isn't a competition, there is no need for ner ner ners.

Every country has done the best it could with it's specific set of circumstances.

But now, look, we’re an island - but suddenly Delta’s sweeping through.

So either our island status and geographical position gives us an advantage… or it doesn’t. Which one is it?

@LimeRedBanana

But now, look, we’re an island - but suddenly Delta’s sweeping through.

So either our island status and geographical position gives us an advantage… or it doesn’t. Which one is it?

Distance and border closure slowed covid down, a la the 1918 flu pandemic which was the historical template for NZ's covid response. The 1918 flu grew less deadly as it spread, so by the time it arrived in NZ there was lower overall mortality. Covid seems to be heading in the other direction (however fortunately we have good vaccines now).

The UK could have slowed the spread though not as much due to the channel tunnel, road freight of food and essentials and being a travel hub. But it absoutely could have slowed it and bought us time, yes. Allowing unrestricted travel of all kinds at the outset was a policy and response failure of the UK government.

*But now, look, we’re an island - but suddenly Delta’s sweeping through.

So either our island status and geographical position gives us an advantage… or it doesn’t. Which one is it?*

Delta is also a "motherfucker" and "mostly completely fine" apparently.

Delta is a motherfucker if you are CEV or over eighty and spreads like wildfire - correct.

It is also true that healthy people from 0-70 years will mostly experience a mild cold or no symptoms at all - also correct.

What is about you that has to make everything black or white. You can't seem to grasp the middle tones of grey.

though not as much due to the channel tunnel, road freight of food and essentials and being a travel hub

Not to mention a land border with the EU it couldn’t close.

When all that stuff is added up, I honestly don’t see how much of a significant difference restricting travel would have made.

What people frequently overlook is that the major advantage NZ in March 2020 was time. No western country took anything seriously until we saw the scenes from Italian hospitals. By that stage, the U.K. was already seeded with thousands of cases. NZ had lower incidences at the point where lockdowns were becoming normalised over the world. That, more than anything, gave them an advantage.