That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

For kiwis struggling to understand the views expressed about NZ’s handling of the pandemic by people who don’t live here, this article shows some of the absolutely ignorant and appalling news articles being published that are helping to shape people’s views in the UK. When you read such ill informed opinion pieces that are highlighted in this article you start to understand where all the strange ideas about NZ come from. www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-fortress-nz-strategy-crumbling-world-reacts-to-latest-lockdown-move/T4AWB6LUGYFI726REA2CN2HW4E/

No one expects NZ will shut it borders for ever. It’s followed the path it has because if we’d just tried to flatten the curve our healthcare system wouldn’t have coped. The upside is that many people here have had a relatively normal life during the pandemic. We go to work, school, on holiday etc and don’t need to give too much thought to catching covid. My kids have hardly had any time off school and when they are there they don’t have to socially distance or wear face masks etc.

We now have enough vaccine and people are booking their appointments to get vaccinated ASAP. All the adults in our house are already fully vaccinated and we’re starting to vaccinate the kids now too.

Yes, there is a lot of difficulty and expense involve in travelling overseas, but we’ve had family come to NZ to visit more than once and I’ve had friends and family going overseas - some for holiday, some for work and others to visit family.

hi @Kiwi09
Sorry about the ignorance and malice you have experienced on this thread. Most people in the uk are not like that, and most people here care about you and wish you well xxx

From Australia we only wish we had handled this as well as NZ has. If we had actually closed our borders instead of just pretending to, or just implemented effective quarantine, we could all have spent most of the last year going about our lives as normal, visiting our families, kids at school and playing with friends, casual workers still earning etc etc. It’s a little disgusting to see some PPs practically hoping for more NZ deaths.

Thanks 54321nought!

I think I just find it frustrating that people don’t understand that we’re not all completely deluded about covid, living in fear, unable to buy toilet paper, in permanent lockdown and refusing to get vaccinated! Lol

All going well we’ll have reached the peak of this outbreak by the end of the week, will move to only seeing new cases within households already exposed and will moving back down our lockdown levels in time to go on holiday at the end of term!

Scott Morrison confirmed that Australia will no longer be following the zero covid strategy, he said it was no longer viable with the arrival of delta and that Australians can not be expected to live in a state of semi permanent lockdowns. I think that puts NZ now in a very difficult and isolated position on the strategy, and we may well see some readjustment taking place.

107 cases in NZ is hardly breaking news, and NZ with society consensus can do as it pleases, but it is looking increasingly out of step with the rest of the world though, and at 19% vaccination rate is months or years away from any real improvement.

We are just about to have boosters here (3rd vaccine) and have just finished three overseas trips to Europe which were wonderful this summer. We are all in very different places now globally, and whatever happens I think most people here in the UK wish the best for NZ - even if we don't agree with your illiberal policies.

@Kiwi09

For kiwis struggling to understand the views expressed about NZ’s handling of the pandemic by people who don’t live here, this article shows some of the absolutely ignorant and appalling news articles being published that are helping to shape people’s views in the UK. When you read such ill informed opinion pieces that are highlighted in this article you start to understand where all the strange ideas about NZ come from. www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-fortress-nz-strategy-crumbling-world-reacts-to-latest-lockdown-move/T4AWB6LUGYFI726REA2CN2HW4E/

No one expects NZ will shut it borders for ever. It’s followed the path it has because if we’d just tried to flatten the curve our healthcare system wouldn’t have coped. The upside is that many people here have had a relatively normal life during the pandemic. We go to work, school, on holiday etc and don’t need to give too much thought to catching covid. My kids have hardly had any time off school and when they are there they don’t have to socially distance or wear face masks etc.

We now have enough vaccine and people are booking their appointments to get vaccinated ASAP. All the adults in our house are already fully vaccinated and we’re starting to vaccinate the kids now too.

Yes, there is a lot of difficulty and expense involve in travelling overseas, but we’ve had family come to NZ to visit more than once and I’ve had friends and family going overseas - some for holiday, some for work and others to visit family.

Thank you for sharing that link. I live in NZ but based on this thread I was starting to think I live on another planet. It's all starting to make a lot more sense now!

even if we don't agree with your illiberal policies I don't believe the UK has followed liberal policies, it has followed laissez-faire policies which has resulted in some very illiberal outcomes.

@Kiwi09

Thanks 54321nought!

I think I just find it frustrating that people don’t understand that we’re not all completely deluded about covid, living in fear, unable to buy toilet paper, in permanent lockdown and refusing to get vaccinated! Lol

All going well we’ll have reached the peak of this outbreak by the end of the week, will move to only seeing new cases within households already exposed and will moving back down our lockdown levels in time to go on holiday at the end of term!

People need to believe this nonsense, it is mentally tough accepting we in the UK really do live under one of the world's most careless and least honest governments.

I have been shocked but am no longer surprised by the depth of uncaring on display by the government. Right back at the start the callousness was notable, matched only by Trump and Bolsonaro. So many deaths are directly attributable to Johnson's failures as a PM.

Of course people want NZ to fail too, even if in a different way it would help us feel better about what has been wilfully done to the UK.

You are trapped in your country and unable to leave, without an exit date even suggested so it could be years away. Your lockdowns are so ridiculously strict that takeaways are not even allowed and vaccine centres are shut.
That sounds pretty hardcore and terrifying from here to be honest, and more like China values system than a democratic western country. The fact you are so relaxed and comfortable about it makes it even worse. It is like you are being stripped of your liberties without even questioning the need for any of this. It is worrying from here to observe the pointless rules and lack of long term planning for delta and other variants in NZ.

Yes, far better to have 150,000 deaths than miss out on a takeaway for a week

The UK has not been free in any way that I recognise.

We have had to live through an awful year, with so much grim trauma. Our NHS is in tatters, our kids are stressed, our teachers leaving in droves. Care homes were gruesome, our key workers were exposed and became disabled or died.

Our government merrily exploited it to offer corrupt contracts.

But yes, we could always get takeaways.

Of course! Because 150,000 died because of take aways. Righto. I see we are now devoid of all scientific fact and how covid even spreads!

It is airborne just to mention. So a takeaway is going to make zero difference to the spread.

Closing the vaccine centres is nothing short of scandalous given that NZ is at a critical moment and the vaccine roll out is imperative now. But don't let the actual facts stand in the way of your diatribe.

The animosity towards NZ and Aussie is bizarre. The vast majority of Kiwis are happy with how our govt handled things. The death rate in the UK to NZers is unconscionable and had Covid run rampant, we likely would've had more deaths per capita because our healthcare system is in fairly poor state.

I saw a post on FB today that talked about how isolating, testing, and vaccinating were manaakitanga (extending aroha (love and compassion) to others) and I think that's how Kiwis see this and previous lockdowns.

@stepupandbecounted

Of course! Because 150,000 died because of take aways. Righto. I see we are now devoid of all scientific fact and how covid even spreads!

It is airborne just to mention. So a takeaway is going to make zero difference to the spread.

Closing the vaccine centres is nothing short of scandalous given that NZ is at a critical moment and the vaccine roll out is imperative now. But don't let the actual facts stand in the way of your diatribe.

Your post is deliberately obtuse. Everyone who can read is aware that covid is airborne.

Clearly the fast, comprehensive and short lockdowns NZ had worked better than the late, flimsy and long lockdowns the UK had.

I would have gone without takeaways to enable schools to be open as much here as in NZ. A takeaway is a funny priority to have.

@stepupandbecounted - maybe check your facts before you post rubbish! Vaccination centres most certainly are NOT closed, as for takeaways not being allowed, well if takeaways are the centre of your world I imagine it must be pretty devastating if you can't get them. We however seem to be managing fine.

@stepupandbecounted

Scott Morrison confirmed that Australia will no longer be following the zero covid strategy, he said it was no longer viable with the arrival of delta and that Australians can not be expected to live in a state of semi permanent lockdowns. I think that puts NZ now in a very difficult and isolated position on the strategy, and we may well see some readjustment taking place.

107 cases in NZ is hardly breaking news, and NZ with society consensus can do as it pleases, but it is looking increasingly out of step with the rest of the world though, and at 19% vaccination rate is months or years away from any real improvement.

We are just about to have boosters here (3rd vaccine) and have just finished three overseas trips to Europe which were wonderful this summer. We are all in very different places now globally, and whatever happens I think most people here in the UK wish the best for NZ - even if we don't agree with your illiberal policies.

Morrison (large parts of the country call him Scummo, btw) may say it, but that doesn’t mean it will happen. He changes his tune from day to day to suit his masters, and with his numbers relatively low it is quite likely his party will roll him before the next election.

NZ has no need to, and has not historically, aligned itself with Aust on issues like these.

And “illiberal”? NZ has spent almost all of the last 17 months living normal lives because of its approach. Much better than laissez faire driven by corporate greed.

I don't think people want facts @gofg, they want to cling to the belief that the UK was not an irrational and corrupt mess.

@stepupandbecounted

You are trapped in your country and unable to leave, without an exit date even suggested so it could be years away. Your lockdowns are so ridiculously strict that takeaways are not even allowed and vaccine centres are shut. That sounds pretty hardcore and terrifying from here to be honest, and more like China values system than a democratic western country. The fact you are so relaxed and comfortable about it makes it even worse. It is like you are being stripped of your liberties without even questioning the need for any of this. It is worrying from here to observe the pointless rules and lack of long term planning for delta and other variants in NZ.

So the 44,000 first vaccinations administered yesterday were DIYs??

@standupandbecounted

The vast majority of New Zealander’s had 6 weeks or so lockdown back in March 2020 and have had very few if any restrictions otherwise. In Auckland we’ve had a couple of other very short lockdowns and have otherwise lived a normal life.

For many kiwis the cost of international travel is prohibitively expensive, so many won’t miss it at all. Obviously it’s much harder for those of us with family overseas. I haven’t met the newest member of my family yet, but I still think we’ve done the right thing because when we do catch up none of us will be missing because we died of covid.

We’re also very lucky that there are many stunning places to holiday here, so we don’t need to go elsewhere in search of some sun.

With the exception of the short periods of time we are in actual lockdown we are free to leave if we want. We don’t need permission. We’re not locked in against our will. Yes, getting MIQ spots is very difficult, but we can go if we like.

Our super strict lockdowns are something I’m pleased about. It means they’re super short, rather than dragging on for months at a time. Not being able to order takeaway isn’t really that bigger deal.

I’d also rather have one or two less European holidays and otherwise live a normal life where my kids can go to school, I can go to work and catch up with friends etc. Personally I’ve only missed out on one trip to the UK, but I’ve had more holidays away here in the last year than the pervious 5 years combined because of that.

If we’d followed the UKs approach our healthcare system would have collapsed. I’d have a very sick child on my hands who wouldn’t have been able to access the care they needed. I wouldn’t have been able to have the operation I needed that has been life changing for me. In a separate issue I’d probably still be sitting here wondering if I had cancer, rather than knowing that i don’t! Id also probably have lost my job if we’d spent months in lockdown, rather than the limited time we have spent which has enabled many people to keep their jobs.

There has always been ongoing covid planning in NZ based on the best scientific advice with the aim of doing what’s best for everyone’s health and the economy. The plan is to vaccinate people before opening up again. No one has ever said we’re locking ourself away for ever. We’re just making sure everyone has the chance to be vaccinated first.

@stepupandbecounted - you’re mad for the panic, aren’t you?!

I’m cooking dinner, will be back later.

Deep breaths, dear. It’s all going to be OK.

P.S. vaccination centres are not closed. I got my firs vax last Thursday, Day 2 of lockdown.

kiwi That was a great post, and very illuminating and I understand the predicament about the limited intensive care wards, and the need to care for the very sick comes before all else, and having a functioning hospital system that can stand up to the onslaught of a covid wave is absolutely paramount. It is for every country. I do appreciate that every country has different priorities, strengths and weaknesses and cultural differences. The nuances are really important when considering the strategies for future waves.

We have experienced the delta variant for months now, and perhaps that is the difference. What we have learnt is that it is pretty impossible to beat - you can catch it simply walking past an infected person and not even especially closely.
Delta is totally different from the other variants, and that is the difference now. We are not dealing with the old strains of covid anymore when lockdowns were the answer to getting control, I think this is going to be far more tricky if not impossible to manage if you are aiming for zero covid, it just won't happen. You will have cases springing up everywhere all of the time, and can't respond each time with a hard lockdown in my view, due to the speed of spread, and the highly infectious nature.

I am total agreement with you that NZ chose the best path for their people at the beginning of the pandemic and to now, but we have to adjust to the new information, and I don't think zero covid is possible any longer, that is my view. It has been hotly contested on here, with people very much sticking with the zero covid strategy.
That is not to say that the previous strategy was wrong with the old strain, of course no one could possibly say that, as it has kept the infection numbers low and people safe, and as you say relatively light on the need for lockdowns to date, but I do think that is about to change, and if I am honest some of the people on here do not seem remotely prepared for the adjustment, and they seem very wielded to the idea of a completely covid free life, and some of us on here are simply questioning whether that is possible? And if it is, how?

Things have moved on at such a pace, the vaccine data, the new variants. It is the strategy moving forward that people are questioning not the success to date.

@lannistunut - I am beginning to think you are correct. Facts just get in the way of a good story

@gofg

It's a mixture of obedience, peer pressure and a weak national media.

The usual utter crap we have come to expect from this poster, who no longer lives in NZ and yet seems to spend an inordinate amount of time fixated on what is happening here instead of the country they now live in. We know we fall far short of your expectations, and presume you have moved away because of that - so how about you give it a rest and enjoy the flaw-free country you now reside in.

QED I think?

Are you that poster who moved to NZ as an adult and feels very strongly about any criticism of any aspect of NZ whatsoever? If so, I'll say again, yes Kiwis continue to feel affinity for and have opinions on their own country. 1 million of us live abroad but we're still Kiwis.

I have to go as it is a beautiful summers day and we are swimming at the beach shortly, I hope you guys work it out None of us know what the future holds without a crystal ball but I hope you get on top of the infections and roll out the vaccines quickly to protect the CEV. Good luck. Mostly if you do catch covid and be completely fine, that is worth remembering too.

• you will be completely fine.

stepup, that sounds like a really good idea. It's been a tough time for everyone over the past 2 years and I can understand that you are anxious and worked up. I would just suggest taking some time away from the topic, focus on other things. Try to relax 😀