4YO Daughter sleeping issues that wife won’t acknowledge

[Msti34]

Hi all, my daughter is 4 and her sleeping is awful. She wakes up each night at least twice from about 9.30pm, and has ended up in our spare bed with my wife every night for the past 3 years or so - my wife might spend 30 minutes in bed with me on a good night before she disappears.

My wife refuses to acknowledge there’s a problem and every time I raise it she thinks I’m a monster; she simply doesn’t want to make it any better. It’s affecting our sex life (less than once a month!), our intimacy and obviously our marriage.

My wife puts her to bed every night, she lies in bed with her singing her nursery rhymes and letting her play with her hair until she drops off. I’ve suggested that this is the problem as I feel like when my daughter wakes up she doesn’t know how to settle herself and I’m concerned that this will just go on and on. My wife refuses to try letting her fall asleep by herself; she disagrees that she needs to do this and thinks I’m totally unreasonable for asking it.

I don’t know where to turn any more. I’ve told how unhappy it makes me but she doesn’t seem to care at all and just thinks I’m being a b*stard for suggesting that my daughter should fall asleep by herself. I feel like I’m not being unreasonable by suggesting she should and that every child is like this.

Please help for the sake of my marriage!!

@Shelovesamystery

Most people know a mother who has martyred themselves. They do everything for the dc's and give up everything for the dc's. They don't let their DH/partner have any say in parenting their own child. I know a couple of mums like this. In fact I was one myself when my youngest was a baby. I would complain about how DH wasn't pulling his weight with parenting, how he didn't know basic things about her routine and how hard it was for me. Then one day DH said "well I would if you'd let me, everything I do is wrong". And then I realised that I was making everything so much harder for myself by being controlling. I made a conscious effort to let him get on with it, not criticise and to listen to his opinions on how we should parent. Their bond grew, DH's confidence grew and things got an awful lot easier for me.

From what the OP has said, I recognise this "mummy martyr" attitude in his dw. I could be wrong of course but that's what it sounds like to me.

Agreed

I think.people are being a bit simplistic about it just being about sex.

Yes we all have to make sacrifices short term.in relationships and spontaneity and sex are probably the first to go. Least if all because it's very difficult to spend all.day being touched by your kids then wanting anyone else to touch u after.

But the talk on here , about it being entirely normal and part of parent hood, even with older children,to have to sacrifice even being in the same room at the same seems rather extreme.

I co-sleep with my 3 year old. I stay with him until he goes to sleep. Because he needs me to. But I still have sex with my husband maybe 2 to 3 times a week on average. ...if your wife isn't having regular sex with you I would consider that co-sleeping is maybe not the cause of that.

FWIW my 4 year old hardly ever slept in my bed, she likes her own space and takes herself off to bed every night, I never stay with her. I've parented her the same so it's also worth considering that maybe your child needs this and it won't last forever, I don't know any 17 year olds who want mum to put them to bed.

@Sadiecow that is so werid

@Sadiecow that’s really interesting. I wonder if that is a little bit my issue…

I do not pick up that it is all about sex in the OP's posts. I think some posters are imposing their own agendas and missing what he is really saying.

He feels that the current bedtime arrangements are having a detrimental impact on their lives as a couple and as a family. I can see that - makes a lot of sense.

He does bath time, reads bedtime stories etc. so it makes no sense to accuse him of doing nothing, and that he needs to step up. Once he has done his bit with the nighttime routine his wife steps in and does the next bit her way, which would be fine if it were not having a negative impact for them both. What is he to do if she will not listen?

Presumably there are some gains for her in perpetuating the situation. They need to be able to discuss this rationally, each respecting the views of the other. It does not sound to me that the OP is wanting to duck out of parenting; he just seems to feel that the balance is now out of kilter and that they need to work together to help this child unlearn her dependence on Mum staying with her till she falls asleep. Seems entirely reasonable to me.

I can only say that my OH's close involvement with the children was a joy for him and for them, and they still talk fondly about it, especially now he has died.

I do not pick up that it is all about sex in the OP's posts. I think some posters are imposing their own agendas and missing what he is really saying.

Yep, it's almost as though the mention of sex has blinkered them to any and all other issues. As soon as a man dares mention sex, he must be a useless partner who does nothing but pester his poor wife.

Yep, it's almost as though the mention of sex has blinkered them to any and all other issues. As soon as a man dares mention sex, he must be a useless partner who does nothing but pester his poor wife

I dont think it's exclusive to partners tbh.

I mean this set up, the fact that a parent is held hostage by their kids behaviour/sleep demands, well you couldn't maintain a relationship with anyone in any form.

Friendships- most people are at work during the day so will only be free for meet ups even at home in evenings.

Family, same really.

And what abut subsequent or pre existing children. You'd not be able to spend any time with them either.

I think people need to reverse the parent. Some of the posts on here are insane.

I'd a woman posted about her husband who was a SAHP, whilst she went to work the responses would be very different. Imagine.

"I go out to work all day whilst DH is at home with our 4 year old child. I get home, do bath and bedtime stories but then my child will only accept DH. He lays with child for hours until child is asleep and we have a quick dinner and go to bed. Shortly after we do, child wakes up and DH leaves to sleep in bed with our child. This happens every night.

We can't ever go out together, we have no adult time, we never have sex. I can't settle my own child. I'm bored, lonely, frustrated and miss my partner"

Can anyone imagine telling the woman that she's unreasonable for feeling that way?! Nope.

This woman is unreasonable! And I'm no sleep trainer or crying it out advocate. I've no problem with my (5 and 3 year old) children getting into bed with us if they're scared or unsettled or ill. Precisely because it doesn't happen very often! 4 year olds should not be up frequently in the night still and this child will struggle when it comes to going to school.

And as for Sarah Ockwell Smith, she is a self appointed expert that talks a load of old cobblers. What's it they say? Gina Ford is unkind to babies and SOS is unkind to parents.

Seems you’ve had a bit of a bashing OP, I agree with PPs that if this were ‘parents reversed’ a lot of those responses would probably have been different.

I have a 4 year old and a toddler have never co-slept with either of them (not that I haven’t been tempted on the nights they’ve been up 10+ times!). No judgment on those who do but to be honest I’ve avoided it because I know from the experiences of friends that becomes a really difficult habit to break. Both children go to sleep in their own beds and sleep through the night. We were lucky with number 1 she’s always been an amazing sleeper but number 2 has definitely not! It’s been a lot of hard work, into the bedroom, picking up, cuddling, putting back down, sneak out, repeat, repeat repeat! But worth it now.

I don’t think it’s wrong or unreasonable that you’re concerned about the impact of this routine on your relationship with your wife. If this was the case in my marriage (reversed) I would feel exactly the same. Hope you manage to find a way that makes everyone comfortable and happy.

Are you planning another child as this wont be able to continue with a new baby.
Your daughter needs a closer attachment to you and a share of bedtimes.

@TerrificTeapot

Lots of parents who have never Co slept children are crawling out of the woodwork. Myth busting time with the same level of anecdotal evidence. In my small sample of my children and a few school friends: all children who have Co slept up to age 12 have

1. Been able to eventually sleep through the night whenever they were ready. For some it was 2 years old, for others 5 and for others 10. But they all did it eventually. Most were about 5.
2. They all cope with emergency nights away from parents at all ages. There's an implicit understanding or trust that if the parents could, they would be there. If they are not there then there is a real emergency. This usually is easier from 4/5 years old. A bit harder younger but they cope.
3. They are really good at sleepovers from about 6-9 years old. They need a phone call the first night but it comes naturally to them.

For some reason parenting in the UK and US is being geared for children to an adult schedule of doing everything before they start school or day care. If you want that type of parenting fine. But don't call other methods rods for your own back just because you didn't want to go at the child's rhythm instead.

If they were given the proper tools to sleep independently, co-sleeping children wouldn't have to 'cope' when their parent of choice is suddenly away

"If they were given the proper tools to sleep independently, co-sleeping children wouldn't have to 'cope' when their parent of choice is suddenly away"

Completely agree @torchh. Nothing wrong with co-sleeping if that's what you want to do. But don't make your child wholly dependent on you outside of the baby years. It's not fair, mostly in the child!

What if, god forbid, you were hospitalised for a month? Or worse? Or even if you needed to attend a family emergency, or a works overnight function?

'Sorry can't, 4 year old won't sleep without me!'

It is ridiculous, sorry.

@justamomentplease

"If they were given the proper tools to sleep independently, co-sleeping children wouldn't have to 'cope' when their parent of choice is suddenly away"

Completely agree @torchh. Nothing wrong with co-sleeping if that's what you want to do. But don't make your child wholly dependent on you outside of the baby years. It's not fair, mostly in the child!

What if, god forbid, you were hospitalised for a month? Or worse? Or even if you needed to attend a family emergency, or a works overnight function?

'Sorry can't, 4 year old won't sleep without me!'

It is ridiculous, sorry.

Or imagine wanting more than one child within five years..... nope can't do that!

Yanbu OP and I say this as someone who cosleeps with our 3 year old most nights. My DH or I stay with her until we go to sleep. The difference I suppose is we discuss whether or not this is the right thing to do and are generally open to conversation about it. We think it would be better for her to learn to sleep without us there initially but there have been reasons (including DC's major surgery) why this hasn't been tackled yet, and we don't really mind the arrangement as it is since we never went out that much in evenings anyway and also have a baby who I'm up with a lot, so we sleep in separate beds regardless at the moment so DH can get more sleep.

If an arrangement works for the whole family that's great, but it isn't here and communication is really important. If your wife is exhausted and feels this is the only way she can cope then I totally understand, but then there could be a dialogue about how you might address this as a team.

Incidentally I didn't always feel like we were together on this - when DC1 was a baby DH was not at all interested in helping at night at all because he said I was breastfeeding and there was nothing he could do, and didn't want to engage with nappy changing or settling etc. On the occasions I simply left him to it he would do outright dangerous things like sleeping on the sofa holding a tiny newborn, or tucking her under his own enormous duvet. I fell into the role of sole carer not because I wanted to be a martyr but because I genuinely felt it was unsafe to not be the one with my baby, who of course was only ever used to me.

As she has got older it's changed completely, he's so involved and brilliant with her, and she is now happy with either of us in the day or at night, although she does prefer me if she is ill. I'm still the main carer for DC2 but I think it will also change as they get older and it is a bit already.

Incidentally when he has been away for the night it was possible to settle both kids together - I used to sit with DC1 and feed the baby to sleep. I agree it would be better not to have to do that, though.

Sorry - should say DH or I stays with her until she goes to sleep! Then we have a brief period of time together downstairs before we both go to bed early in separate rooms (baby in with me in cot and DC1 climbs in with either DH or I). We usually have sex downstairs on the sofa!

I'm not saying our arrangement is ideal but if one of us was really unhappy the other would be open to at least discussing it which it sounds like isn't happening in OP's case

Buy a bigger bed - you all co-sleep together - there won't be multiple wakings because she will feel secure.

Everyone will be more rested. At that point, you and your wife can be more creative with how you want to manage your sex life (it doesn't just have to happen at night!)

DD will eventually drift to wanting her own space and own bed.

It sounds as though your parenting styles are very at odds. I personally won't force my children to fall asleep alone or to stay in their own beds. But my DH is also on board. I have one excellent sleeper and one dreadful sleeper, so it's clearly just personality.

@TerrificTeapot

Lots of parents who have never Co slept children are crawling out of the woodwork. Myth busting time with the same level of anecdotal evidence. In my small sample of my children and a few school friends: all children who have Co slept up to age 12 have

1. Been able to eventually sleep through the night whenever they were ready. For some it was 2 years old, for others 5 and for others 10. But they all did it eventually. Most were about 5.
2. They all cope with emergency nights away from parents at all ages. There's an implicit understanding or trust that if the parents could, they would be there. If they are not there then there is a real emergency. This usually is easier from 4/5 years old. A bit harder younger but they cope.
3. They are really good at sleepovers from about 6-9 years old. They need a phone call the first night but it comes naturally to them.

For some reason parenting in the UK and US is being geared for children to an adult schedule of doing everything before they start school or day care. If you want that type of parenting fine. But don't call other methods rods for your own back just because you didn't want to go at the child's rhythm instead.

Exactly!

My DD who co-slept with both of us for quite a while was perfectly able to go to sleepovers with friends, week-long sleep-away camps, share rooms with siblings etc. Even now at 10 she would much rather sleep with me than alone but she can.

It's not a rod or bad parenting, or a sleep issue if it's working for everyone. In the OP's scenario he's the only one it's not working for and he's not acknowledging why it's working for his wife. If he keeps calling it a 'problem' and refusing to compromise in any way then I can see why she's not interested in working to find a compromise too.

I'm with you OP. I think that's absolutely ridiculous and I do think she's avoiding you. Your wife may as well just sleep with your daughter all the time. No need for her doing what she's doing other than she prefers that to sleeping all night in her own bed. No suggestions how to solve it though, sorry.

Um… it’s ok for a husband to want sex and intimacy with his wife, and to be sad that it’s happening very irregularly. Not sure why so many posters are acting like that’s outrageous. I didn’t get the impression from the OP that he was fixated on that. I also didn’t get the idea that he’s washed his hands of his daughter and can’t be arsed doing any of the parenting.
To me, it sounds like the DW has facilitated a habit where DD cries and is comforted without trying to self soothe. Of course a 4 year old might need support to settle but if it’s happening multiple times every single night without fail, and nothing has been tried to lessen this, it sounds like routine. It may be a routine that DW is happy with. Maybe a bigger bed so you can all sleep together without her choosing to separate herself off from you? It’s weird - sounds like your wife and daughter are one little incredibly tight knit unit which excludes you. Not sure why.

I co-sleep with my 3 year old. I stay with him until he goes to sleep. Because he needs me to. But I still have sex with my husband maybe 2 to 3 times a week on average. ...if your wife isn't having regular sex with you I would consider that co-sleeping is maybe not the cause of that.

I think that very much depends on the rest of the dynamics in the house. By the time we’ve got our two terrible sleepers to sleep and then cooked and had dinner it’s often 10pm. Add to that that a small child could walk in the door at a moment’s notice and funnily enough I’m not that often up for sex. And no way am I setting an alarm for a quickie before they wake up, I get too little sleep as it is.

Can I get this right? Your daughter is 4 and you never put her to bed? If so pull your finger out and start doing it.

@LibrariesGiveUsPower45321

Can I get this right? Your daughter is 4 and you never put her to bed? If so pull your finger out and start doing it.

And if the OPs wife won't let him?

OP does the bathtime, reads a story, and has said he's desperate to help out. However if his wife takes over everytime as the daughter gets upset, then i'm not sure what the OP can do.

Exactly Whinge - there are plenty of examples on this forum of hopeless fathers; but in this instance I do not think that is what we are talking about - this is a Dad who wants to be involved with bedtime.