4YO Daughter sleeping issues that wife won’t acknowledge

[Msti34]

Hi all, my daughter is 4 and her sleeping is awful. She wakes up each night at least twice from about 9.30pm, and has ended up in our spare bed with my wife every night for the past 3 years or so - my wife might spend 30 minutes in bed with me on a good night before she disappears.

My wife refuses to acknowledge there’s a problem and every time I raise it she thinks I’m a monster; she simply doesn’t want to make it any better. It’s affecting our sex life (less than once a month!), our intimacy and obviously our marriage.

My wife puts her to bed every night, she lies in bed with her singing her nursery rhymes and letting her play with her hair until she drops off. I’ve suggested that this is the problem as I feel like when my daughter wakes up she doesn’t know how to settle herself and I’m concerned that this will just go on and on. My wife refuses to try letting her fall asleep by herself; she disagrees that she needs to do this and thinks I’m totally unreasonable for asking it.

I don’t know where to turn any more. I’ve told how unhappy it makes me but she doesn’t seem to care at all and just thinks I’m being a b*stard for suggesting that my daughter should fall asleep by herself. I feel like I’m not being unreasonable by suggesting she should and that every child is like this.

Please help for the sake of my marriage!!

You use the word "allow" does your wife rugby tackle you to the floor If you get within 10 feet or something?

So what happens if just get up take her hand and go "come on dd it's bath time , then daddy will.tuck you on and read you a story "

Is there a forcefield on the stairs ?

Ah, I see. It didn’t come across in the op like it was about your daughter’s disturbed sleep - the focus seemed to be on the fact that sex/intimacy wasn’t happening and your you didn’t mention your daughter being tired during the day.

I think encouraging your wife to have a night out and taking some responsibility is a good idea. Then it will come across like you are trying to help rather than expecting her to get your daughter to sleep quickly so she can come to bed with you.

The thing is if a child is crying at night you can go in and cuddle them and wait for them to fall asleep and then leave. That's what we've always done. Our dc has never coslept with us ever and is very happy in their own bed. I think once you start cosleeping it must be a habit thats difficult to break. They need to learn to fall back asleep on their own if they wake up at night.

@Nsky

I think a sleep programme is needed. She needs to sleep independently at 4 Yes children need comfort at and times, and men need affection and sex. I never allowed my sons past 8 weeks were to sleep in their own beds, comforted and then returned. When babies more than 20 mins they were tended to.

What a stupid post. I’m sure if men need affection and sex so desperately they can help put their children to bed.

It doesn't do the child any favours imo.

I won't look after my niece for this reason. She will not sleep alone. My sister goes to bed with her at 8pm. So my sister is wide awake at 4am as 8pm is too early a bed time for an adult. If she gets back out of bed and leaves her in bed she wakes up and follows you.

My sister has needed babysitting before and I've said no as I'm not going to bed at 8pm and sleeping in bed with an 8 year old. I'm just not doing it.

She sorts her sleep out then I'll do it.

@Msti34

This isn’t about the sex thing, that’s a bi-product. It’s more about my daughter waking up multiple times and is all having disturbed sleep. We’re all knackered and she’s going to school in a couple of weeks which is my biggest concern - although part of me is thinking she may tire herself out so much at school that she starts sleeping through. It seems that there’s split opinion as to whether the co-sleeping should continue or whether we should try and get her to sleep by herself . I think maybe trying to persuade my wife to actually go out might be a good plan as this would then allow me to put my daughter to bed.

How are you proposing that she should get to sleep by herself?

What’s the actual plan, it’s so much easier said than done.
Whose putting her to sleep? and more importantly when she wakes up whose dragging their body out of bed to see to her? Because the devils in the detail.

I bet your wife knows full well who will be getting up during the night.

Have you actually told your wife that you'd like to take over the bedtime routine in hopes of forming better sleep habits?

Shes only 4. Its very young. My toddlers were cosleeping at that age.
School at reception will make her clingyier still.

I recommend not trying to pit yourself between mother and child. You wont win.

Cant remember when we had sex. I think it was maybe once or twice a year. Possibly in the day.

They do tend to grow out of it. My five year old still wants my husband or I around until she has fallen to sleep and still sometimes wakes and crawls into bed with us. We have a super king specifically for that reason. I can whole heartedly recommend getting a much bigger bed. Also, it seems a bit odd to me that you are considering your marriage to be on the line over something like this, especially given that it is for a relatively short phase in the scheme of things. Do you feel as though you ought to be having more sex because you see it as validation of a strong relationship? It seems like you worry that less sex is a sign of a lack of interest/poor relationship. Why would you consider breaking up a relationship over this and causing huge consequences for all of you, not least your daughter? She should come first in your life, just as your wife is putting her first. If you split, how do you propose that you would deal with custody if you were unable to put her to bed? You might discover that it is much harder than you think and much easier to just give in and let her crawl into bed with you at 3am rather than have a battle at that time of night even if it does perpetuate the cycle. Why can't you change your routine, book an afternoon off, get a baby sitter of wait until she is at school and then instigate some romance if bedtimes no longer work for you both? I think that you need to be patient, get a bigger bed that you can all fit into and adapt the timing of your sex life if it's not currently working.

[quote Beaudalaire]@Msti34 come off it it’s not about the sex. Why even mention it in your OP then.[/quote]
Bit odd as well that these worries about the child being tired and disturbed only appeared 3 posts on, when the opening post was entirely about op and wife, and the child being tired wasn’t mentioned at all.

Thanks everyone, it’s honestly useful hearing everybody’s experiences and points of view. We all need to have empathy for each other, even me and even you Beaudalaire.
I just wanted to know if I was being unreasonable by wanting my wife to try something different - there are obviously different opinions, some that I share and maybe some I need to have empathy with.
I’m desperate to help out with the bedtime routine but things have ended up in such a hardcore routine that it’s hard to break but maybe that’s the starting point.

Honestly I don't think anyone is 'right' here. You both have different opinions on an aspect of parenting and need to find a compromise.

I co-sleep with DD but it hasn't harmed my relationship with my husband - quite the opposite as we are all properly rested as a result! My DD (2.5) is cuddled to sleep by me (or her dad, but usually me) after we have some stories and songs in bed together, then I get back up until I get into bed with her again whenever I want to go to bed. If she occasionally wakes up before I am in bed with her and needs to be resettled, which is rare, I cuddle her again and she's usually back asleep within minutes.

There's nothing wrong in your wife wanting to sleep beside your DD, or with your DD wanting to sleep beside your wife.

A compromise might be finding a way for you to have time in the evenings to spend together/be intimate, so work on your daughter staying asleep (be that in her bed or in a bed she shares with one/both of you) for the early part of the evening before you both go to bed. And maybe you can try cuddling her and putting her to sleep in a way that suits her. There seems to be an obsession with just sticking your child in bed and leaving them to sleep like it's some badge of honour, but what's wrong with some songs and a cuddle of both enjoy it?

Your wife sounds like a lovely mum and your daughter sounds like a normal 4 year old. There is something a bit odd about the way you talk about them though- you sound a bit distant and lacking in understanding about how small children act.

I don't think a 4yo should need a parent to soothe her to sleep, or be waking several times each night and disturbing the house.

YANBU to want to take steps to address this. It is usual to want to spend an evening with your spouse, to go out together sometimes, or to have sex.

But I think you need to be careful not to present this as criticism, or to make it all about sex, all of which will prove counter-productive.

I agree that you need to begin by spending more time with your daughter, to include some of the bedtime and night-waking duties. If your daughter is less pleased to see you than her mum when she wakes, that in itself might encourage a bit more independence.

I think maybe trying to persuade my wife to actually go out might be a good plan as this would then allow me to put my daughter to bed.

This works when both partners are on board with the idea. Here your wife wants something else. You need to work with her not try to con her into letting your child cry itself to sleep. Your wife isn't stupid.

There's something about the way you think your wife is parenting wrong and your child needs fixing which is grating.

Your wife and child have formed a bond and have found a way that works best for them. Fine you don't like the status quo but that doesn't mean the status quo is broken and needs fixing.

Even through your posts trying to frame your wife as over indulging your child, your wife comes across as caring and considerate.

It seems you are approaching this conversation as "this is my desired outcome, how do we get there?"
Take a step back and recognise what you have. Is it quiet evenings, still mornings or a really happy child?
Understand what's working. And after that, after acknowledging that your wife is parenting ok, then ask:
"I'd really like to get to this point in our family life, are you interested in that too or do you see our family developing differently?"
You need to get on the same page as to goals before you run around "solutioning"

It's not an ideal situation for any of you. But do try to think of things you can do,rather than just asking your wife what she's going to do about it.

She must be frustrated with the set up too.
And if she's not,then it may be because she just doesn't feel like having sex often and doesn't want to bring it up.

It may also just be because this is how she prefers to comfort her upset child!

Either way, have a chat with her to find out if she would even like to tweak the sleeping situation for you child firstly , don't mention sex and intimacy as that's an unnecessary stressor here for now, then offer helpful suggestions or options.

Maybe you could join her for some of the bedtime routine,hang around at bath time chatting, while mum and daughter do their thing.

Maybe listen to the bedtime story with them another night.

Slowly build up time with them both in the evenings and maybe you can progress to a place where you can put your child to bed or at least do part of it.

It won't change overnight

Be helpful and patient if you want change.

Thanks notimeforaname, I do help out with the bath time and the bedtime story - I just leave the room when it’s time to go to sleep.

I’m desperate to help out with the bedtime routine but things have ended up in such a hardcore routine that it’s hard to break but maybe that’s the starting point

Just hang around them ! Go with them ,hover around(not in the way ) just get her used to you being around chatting or listening to story.

Well see if your wife would be interested first. Just gentle small things

Your whole post is about you.

But I'm sure this post is just about sex to be honest. If your child is going to school soon, then come home during the day for sex instead of breaking a lovely bond between mother and child just because you don't understand it.

@Clymene

Your whole post is about you.

To be fair, most people posting on mn for advice are doing so from their own perspective.

Until very recently my 4 yo dd would be cuddled to sleep at night and end up in our bed at some point in the night. She suddenly decided for herself she wanted two stories and then we go and that she would stay in her own bed all night. And she has apart from a couple of nights where she got scared.

If your wife is happy to do it don’t make that time they have something you want to put a downer on or a stop to. As for the sex well we also have 2 teenagers and it’s not easy but not impossible!

The post is about me yes Clymene, because I’m the one that has the problem with it all - no denying that! Given that this is the AIBU thread then I was asking for opinions on exactly that.