4YO Daughter sleeping issues that wife won’t acknowledge

[Msti34]

Hi all, my daughter is 4 and her sleeping is awful. She wakes up each night at least twice from about 9.30pm, and has ended up in our spare bed with my wife every night for the past 3 years or so - my wife might spend 30 minutes in bed with me on a good night before she disappears.

My wife refuses to acknowledge there’s a problem and every time I raise it she thinks I’m a monster; she simply doesn’t want to make it any better. It’s affecting our sex life (less than once a month!), our intimacy and obviously our marriage.

My wife puts her to bed every night, she lies in bed with her singing her nursery rhymes and letting her play with her hair until she drops off. I’ve suggested that this is the problem as I feel like when my daughter wakes up she doesn’t know how to settle herself and I’m concerned that this will just go on and on. My wife refuses to try letting her fall asleep by herself; she disagrees that she needs to do this and thinks I’m totally unreasonable for asking it.

I don’t know where to turn any more. I’ve told how unhappy it makes me but she doesn’t seem to care at all and just thinks I’m being a b*stard for suggesting that my daughter should fall asleep by herself. I feel like I’m not being unreasonable by suggesting she should and that every child is like this.

Please help for the sake of my marriage!!

Why would you leave. Surely that's the time to say " why don't you go down stairs and make some tea and find a movie on netflix dw I've got it tonight "

Its not going to change over night, surely taking on equal share of things is the first step to changing them?

Ah ok sorry!! Would you be allowed to sit in the floor for a while too? If your daughter drifted off would your wife be happy to try to get upand leave? Even if this takes a few times?

After a few nights/week of you consistently being there for all the bedtimes you possibly can,. maybe during/after story mummy can start ''nipping to the loo' for 30 seconds ..coming straight back, leaving daddy to hold the fort for a few seconds
.

Doing this a few times and leaving it slightly longer each time may help her eventually get used to nodding off with you?

It's not a great suggestion but if you really want to try anything..

@TerrificTeapot

Honestly if I were your wife I'd leave and you'd have 2 weeks to fulfil your sex life and 2 weeks to figure out by yourself how your sex life and home life and work life all need to exist in the same time space continuum. I'm not saying you can't make it work as a family but your approach in pitching your life against your child's and putting your wife in the middle of it is just so inconsiderate it's painful to read and if I were living it I know what I'd do.

Before you start doing the dishes in exchange for sex, have you checked if you are jealous of the amount of attention your child gets from your wife?

I mean... there's a lot to unpick here.

There's a thread on about ages kids co-sleep at. Once you've satisfied yourself that your wife is doing the best she can then maybe have a chat with her and she may have other suggestions....

For four years??? Really?? Oh my days. No one should be sleeping with their child for four years.

I'm not surprised that OP has questioned this.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Why would you leave. Surely that's the time to say " why don't you go down stairs and make some tea and find a movie on netflix dw I've got it tonight "

Its not going to change over night, surely taking on equal share of things is the first step to changing them?

I leave the room because all my daughter wants is her mummy. She kicks up if my wife leaves the bed and so it’s easier for all of us not to go through the big tantrum before bed. There’s something in what you’re saying though as maybe we should try me staying in there with them and build from there.

I’m not sure I would be looking to make big changes at the same time as she is starting school. Maybe wait a little longer and take a gradual approach that works for all of you

No one should be sleeping with their child for four years.

According to who? Where is this written down?

No one should be sleeping with their child for four years.

Says?

@SMBH

I’m not sure I would be looking to make big changes at the same time as she is starting school. Maybe wait a little longer and take a gradual approach that works for all of you

Agreed, thank you.

Well then start off doing it together.

Then when your dd is used to you being a part of bedtime, start taking turns with your wife.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Well then start off doing it together.

Then when your dd is used to you being a part of bedtime, start taking turns with your wife.

Thank you

For four years??? Really?? Oh my days. No one should be sleeping with their child for four years.*

Why not? All of my DC co-slept and grew out of it themselves somewhere between 4-5, it didn't impact my marriage and we managed to conceive a further three DC after DC1 so it didn't affect our relationship or our sex life either.

To be really blunt, OP, it's coming across almost like your jealous of your wife and daughter, either of their relationship or of your daughter taking all of your wife's time - time which, based on your opening post, you think could be better spent servicing your needs. I agree with PPs that you need to work on building your relationship with your child. You could also remember that intimacy and sex are not the same thing and perhaps work on building some non-physical intimacy with your wife.

Interestingly, I read something the other day about Japan and bedsharing. There it's very common for children to co-sleep with a family member right through early/middle childhood. There was a word I can't remember for it, but the imagery was a flowing river (your child) with parents either side (the banks). So deciding when a child stops co-sleeping is entirely a manufactured societal thing that may be influenced by where you live in the world and cultural considerations, not any sort of empirical rule or objective criteria. If we think it's odd, it's just because it's not something we have been exposed to most likely, not that there's anything 'wrong' with it.

I knew it was dangerous posting on here but didn’t quite expect a character assassination when looking for some advice. 🙁

Genuine thanks to those who have given some advice. I’m not perfect by any means and don’t pretend to be, but we’re all trying.🙂

Is your dd dry dry night yet?
We had a nightmare with dd for years. She was a v anxious/ clingy child. She took ages to drop off and would invariably end to in our bed.
We hated it.
But it was better than trying to get her back to sleep in her own bed. Then suddenly, around 6 she stopped. It coincided with being dry at night, so I think that's what used to wake her.

I have a four year old and we've never coslept and she has self settled from a baby, nor has she kicked off if her dad does bedtime so I get where the concern is.

It sounds to me like you need to do bedtime and your wife back off slightly. Maybe child has associated sleep with your wife so when she wakes up and she's not there she panics. Ultimately though it's up to your wife to say enough is enough and maybe does singing/stories then leave when she is awake. It doesn't sound as though she is ready for that tho?

My 3yo still wakes 1-2 times a night and we don't co-sleep. The wakings aren't necessarily due to the co-sleeping.

Do you do your fair share of chores and childcare when you're at home? Men who help more have better and more frequent sex, presumably because their wives feel on the same page as them rather than being treated as a domestic appliance.

To help your wife solve the bedtime issue, you need to help with bedtime. It's a joint problem but you seem to think it's on her to sort it out. You both need to be able to do bedtime independently. Indeed, you as a father should be able to do all aspects of caring for your child independently. Can you encourage your wife to go away and visit friends or family for a weekend (or at least an overnight) to give you a chance to bond with your DD without her being there, including doing bedtime?

I haven't read the full thread, but you'll probably find she starts sleeping through the night once she starts school. Your daughter will of course grow out of this.

I have 3 kids, one of whom was in P1 before he reliably slept through the night. I do find it a bit odd that your wife does the entire bedtime routine every night - what a drag. I'd probably be touched out and not up for intimacy either.

@TerrificTeapot

I think maybe trying to persuade my wife to actually go out might be a good plan as this would then allow me to put my daughter to bed.

This works when both partners are on board with the idea. Here your wife wants something else. You need to work with her not try to con her into letting your child cry itself to sleep. Your wife isn't stupid.

There's something about the way you think your wife is parenting wrong and your child needs fixing which is grating.

Your wife and child have formed a bond and have found a way that works best for them. Fine you don't like the status quo but that doesn't mean the status quo is broken and needs fixing.

Even through your posts trying to frame your wife as over indulging your child, your wife comes across as caring and considerate.

It seems you are approaching this conversation as "this is my desired outcome, how do we get there?"
Take a step back and recognise what you have. Is it quiet evenings, still mornings or a really happy child?
Understand what's working. And after that, after acknowledging that your wife is parenting ok, then ask:
"I'd really like to get to this point in our family life, are you interested in that too or do you see our family developing differently?"
You need to get on the same page as to goals before you run around "solutioning"

This is an excellent post!

Also, with kids, sadly it isn't about what is easiest or most convenient for us as parents, it's about what the child needs. At the moment, this little girl needs comfort and reassurance and help to settle at night. If she is waking at night she could be cold/hot, thirsty, need the toilet, scared or all of the above. She is very little still, and starting school is a stressful time. It might be that her bedtime routine can be gradually tweaked to help her get used to settling herself better - but I wouldnt be making a fuss or doing anything drastic until she's settled in school.

@Msti34

Thanks everyone, it’s honestly useful hearing everybody’s experiences and points of view. We all need to have empathy for each other, even me and even you Beaudalaire. I just wanted to know if I was being unreasonable by wanting my wife to try something different - there are obviously different opinions, some that I share and maybe some I need to have empathy with. I’m desperate to help out with the bedtime routine but things have ended up in such a hardcore routine that it’s hard to break but maybe that’s the starting point.

If you want your wife to try something different, then you need to try something different too.

You need to be getting up through the night. You need to be putting your dd to bed. You need to be doing the bedtime routine.

If you're not prepared to do that, then I don't think your opinion in the conversation with your wife will hold much weight.

Hi, at 3/4 yr little one should self settle when waking thru the night (if she’s unwell, it’s a different story).
This is a learned behaviour…..cry cry cry, Mummy comes running. There’s a payoff or reward for the crying. This cycle can be managed/altered, but it’ll take time and you and yr wife have to be more aligned and determined than your daughter! It seems that your daughter has been allowed, albeit for peace or whatever, to control the household. I never lay with my children at bedtime,….tea, bath, story, kisses and cuddle, snuggle down, night night. I suspect yr daughter will not appreciate any change, however you are the parent, at this age, your rules. Good luck.

@Onthemaintrunkline

Hi, at 3/4 yr little one should self settle when waking thru the night (if she’s unwell, it’s a different story). This is a learned behaviour…..cry cry cry, Mummy comes running. There’s a payoff or reward for the crying. This cycle can be managed/altered, but it’ll take time and you and yr wife have to be more aligned and determined than your daughter! It seems that your daughter has been allowed, albeit for peace or whatever, to control the household. I never lay with my children at bedtime,….tea, bath, story, kisses and cuddle, snuggle down, night night. I suspect yr daughter will not appreciate any change, however you are the parent, at this age, your rules. Good luck.

I’d say as mummy’s the one doing the bedtime then it’s mummy’s work, mummy’s rules actually.

If people want to teach their kids to self settle then that’s their own choice, but there’s no rule saying children ‘should’ self settle through the night at any age. Basically what you’re suggesting is that the op’s want (to have ‘intimate’ time with his wife) should take precedence over the four year old’s wish to ‘control the house.’

It sounds like the mum is happy with things. If op isn’t he needs to open a conversation asking how he can carve out time to be with his wife, not demand she starts putting her child to sleep in a way she dislikes so she can have sex with him.

Maybe you could drop into conversation that you've been thinking about insurance and risk and the future. That you're worried that if anything should happen to her, your beloved wife, you'll need to be fully versed in all aspects of parenting DD. So you're hoping to take over bedtime from here, in the interests of your DD having two involved parents.

Your poor wife must be exhausted.

Its not a good idea the way your wife is going about things, A child needs a proper bedtime routine, as in being in her own room, at a certain time. This won't be possible,if your wife is kind of setting up this habit of hers with your child. Either of you should take your child to bed at this age, and have little chats, or read a story to her, and then she will hopefully fall asleep. My children. when young, always responded well, to a simple bedtime routine, with either myself or late husband, of going to bed quite early. having bedtimes stories, and a nice peaceful bedroom., with no noise, or visual things to watch.