AIBU to insist we stay in London?

[londonlass33]

DH wants to leave London and I desperately don’t. We’ve visited numerous places in the south-east where we could viably live (due to commuting distance mainly) to house hunt and I’ve just not felt at home anywhere.

For me London has it all - culture, diversity, fabulous parks, restaurants, excellent public transport, nightlife, sports and myriad educational and job opportunities for the DC when they get older. Nowhere we’ve visited has come even close to my mind.

We also live in a lovely quiet street with a wonderful sense of community and are good friends with our fabulous neighbours. We have many friends in the area through the DC’s nursery too.

DH is adamant he wants to leave as whilst he acknowledges all of the above, he’s got his heart set on a change of scenery after the last 18 months. I’m very reluctant to give it a go for the aforementioned reasons and because it will be nigh on impossible to come back if we leave and regret it.

WWYD?

I’ve lived in a lot of places OP- nice bits of London, Canterbury, Oxford, St Albans, Bristol, Bath, windsor— I loved living in Bath- it had tons of facilities and lots of similar minded people but it isn’t cheap and is rubbish if you need to commute. My choice would always be a nice bit of south west London— Teddington, Kingston, richmond, Thames Ditton, Surbiton, Hampton etc . Lots of nice greenery, easy out for daytrips to some lovely countryside. Train to go to Brighton etc. Failing that and in your situation my choices would be Guildford or Winchester or Summertown in Oxford . None are cheap though. It’s very easy to idealise places outside London but in my view if you live in a really good bit of south west London it takes some beating

Nothing can replace the buzz of London as the UK’s capital city.

I love London I just think price growth in the future will be more apparent in other areas as London is quite prohibitive to the young now. I don't know anyone who wasn't helped onto the ladder by parents including me.

It's the commuting aspect which puts me off. My DP would also prefer to live out. But whilst still in my job (I work in a theatre) it's just not an option for me.

My advice is though not so base it on their / your friendships. People leave so often, even people you thought would never leave as they had a decent size house etc. They have lost so many friends so base any decision on you and your family only.

Yes it's weird how we have gone full circle & our friendship group is pretty much our school friends. Friends collected along the way eg uni, work, neighbours, primary have all left even those with budgets to stay. A lot of people want to be close to family hence why we have all stayed & so many leave. We are actually going to move to the outer zones (which I don't love) but 90% of our friends are there having moved further out so makes sense. I do love the fact that my dc are friends with people I went to school with & may end up in school with.

I do think your DH is looking at this with rose tinted glasses and reflecting on what his childhood was like many moons ago. Things have changed since then and no children roam wild and free as though they are "free range" in the countryside.

My view is that young children may enjoy the countryside and outings, but the teenage years can be very hard indeed for them. Job opportunities and later life events etc. I can see both sides. I can see youngsters who live literally an hour away on a train from London who have never ever been to this country's capital city who have a very insular view on life. However, they are into sailing, paddle boarding and other activities. Then there are London children who are far more sophisticated with a diverse range of interests and friends.

I know some of this is a sweeping generalisation but as an ex Londoner I can see some stark differences that I had never considered before.

Often what you gain is a bigger house and easier access to the countryside and seaside. In many cases it's just down to the property that you live in.

London has so much to offer, especially youngsters. You don't sound at all convinced with a proposed move and why should you be forced into doing something that you really don't want to do?

Out of interest where have you actually been looking? I've made the move to a Hampshire market town from London and am still trying to settle. My partner is from round here and has no understanding whatsoever of why I find it hard adapting. But then easy for him to say as this is what he knows and conversely I know London.

If you have been looking at the bigger market town/city options of the SE and you still feel uncomfortable with these I would really suggest that you give very serious consideration as to whether this is right for you.

And most definitely rent in your preferred location first. Otherwise the whole thing can end up being a terribly expensive mistake. Do not underestimate the importance of trying it out before committing to such a move.

London is great for kids, especially teenagers who want to travel independently etc

Except for the epidemic of knife crime and the far higher chance of finding trouble of all kinds.....

I think you should wait until you know how often you are expected/required to be in an office before making any decision. This could be until this time next year before there are long-term office expectations.

Absolutely don't give in to your DH. All the reasons you have for not leaving London are of paramount importance and if you move to the countryside you will not have access to any of them.

Like PP I grew up rurally and I found it hell throughout my teenage years. Mind-numbingly boring. I didn't want to roam free in idyllic fields and look at views, I wanted to go to gigs and art galleries and clubs and discover the world. And full of such conservative, close-minded people, especially in villages. Especially the case if you're not white and not straight.

Got out of there the second I could and as an adult have blossomed in London. Found my tribe, got the life I wanted. Just can't imagine why anyone would go back. Some friends with kids have moved out of London to rural villages and every time we visit them we're reminded of why we will never, ever do this. Nothing to do, no way to get anywhere easily, heavily Tory-skewed demographics.

It's absolute nonsense that the countryside is a better place to bring up children. I'd have given anything for a city adolescence.

Safety? The only time I've been the victim of violent crime was in a rural village because the local kids didn't like the colour of my skin or my mouthy liberal views. In London I lived through my 20s in the kind of estates most of MN would call rough and never had a problem. As a non-white person I am far, far more on edge in predominantly white rural England than I have ever been in Hackney, Tower Hamlets or Peckham.

If I left London it would only be to go abroad.

I feel like you about London, but we are leaving to be closer to family and have a bigger house. However, the one thing I won't miss is how transient the population in London is.

@OldScrappyAndHungry

The countryside is massively overrated for kids - once they’re over going for a walk there is fuck all to do. I grew up in a city and agree with previous posters that city kids generally have far more independence. My dh was reliant on lifts to go anywhere and didn’t have things like a swimming pool, cinema, etc anywhere near. I had a handy bus route to all that.

We live in a rural ish area now and I fucking hate it. I’d give my right arm to be back in London!

AS if everything outside of London is "countryside" and there is nothing to do apart from go for a walk!! Move to the beach. That's what I did, my kids have the sea to keep them occupied as well as all the amenities near by, and the countryside on the otherside, ten minutes drive from a large town and an easy train to the city. There are plenty of places that aren't empty countryside....

@Qwerty789

London is great for kids, especially teenagers who want to travel independently etc

Except for the epidemic of knife crime and the far higher chance of finding trouble of all kinds.....

Knife crime occurs mostly among people who know each other. Random people rarely get stabbed in the street. Also the amount of drug taking in the ‘idyllic countryside’ is massive.

The countryside doesn't appeal to me but somewhere like Bristol or Guildford would. Also the seaside. As pp said most people stay in their own area of London anyway so I just like having lots of amenities on my doorstep as I want to walk to the cinema, bar, swimming pool etc

@friendlycat. Yes that’s bang on. The idea that you move and your kids are wandering through woods and meadows or down at the sea on their own is I think a bit of a rose tinted glasses thing. The more likely scenario is they will be out on your probably bigger garden and hanging round in town with other teens. — and as you have said if you do try something new the key is to rent for a year. We have always rented nice big houses for many reasons— one big one being that my H always had itchy feet, I made friends in Bath but elsewhere? Not really

I moved out of zone 2 london when our daughter was a baby. We didn't go that far - we are in the outer london suburbs. My husband wanted the moved more than I did. I hated it for the first few years, particularly the commute. I have warmed to it over the past couple of years. Our daughter starting school was a big part of that - many of the other parents are london refugees so I now have some friends round here. Being around during lockdown has meant I have got to know the area better, so it is not just a "dormitory" for us. And being surrounded by greenery has been great through the pandemic.

The downsides are the commute, which even though not that long by london standards, I hate, and spending more time in the car.

As others have said if your children are still small you might find that a lot of your london friends will leave soon. My former london friends are now spread from Braintree to Winchester. Only one family has stayed in london, and they are looking to move out now their kids are secondary school age.

@paepoyrol— we found Bristol a nightmare with a teen, far too big a drug scene and far too easy to get into, our son was a bloody nightmare when we lived there — also all the rental houses (and I’m talking high end) were a bit grotty -

Knife crime occurs mostly among people who know each other. Random people rarely get stabbed in the street.

Is that true or do people just assume that the black kid who got stabbed was in a gang or up to no good?

Also the amount of drug taking in the ‘idyllic countryside’ is massive.

Massive drug taking in London which has a huge impact on crime. It's is one reason I never took drugs as I saw the reality growing up. Same for DH who also wouldn't receive a slap on the wrist like a white kid from a nice neighbourhood for having drugs on his person.

Ah tricky one, its unfortunate you aren't on the same page. I would suspect his memories of growing up in the countryside are different to the reality now, and also different to being an adult who has to commute to work etc. It's a very big leap of faith, and if you're not both happy to take it at the moment seems sensible to stay put and let the dust from the pandemic and the past 18 months settle a bit. As has been said there are lots of places that there's plenty to do outside of London, but it's not the same.

@Crikeyalmighty I grew up in Brixton in the 80s & 90s I'm sure it would be fine for me & never taken a drug in my life.

Also crime is everywhere, statistically the chances of being a victim of crime in London are low, I suspect many bringing that up watch it on the news without having lived there.

@Stealbee

Also crime is everywhere, statistically the chances of being a victim of crime in London are low, I suspect many bringing that up watch it on the news without having lived there.

Not true. They are much higher in London than say...rural Yorkshire. Many multiples higher in fact.

I didn't say they were lower than elsewhere, just that in general they are low, which is true.

Can you move to a leafier part of London? We're in SE London zone 3 and surrounded by parks, it feels half countryside here.

Has he ever lived in the country?

I agree with those saying that your reasons to stay seem much more compelling than your DH reasons to leave. And I would wait at least 6 months before any decision, see how ‘normal’ life feels. But with the ‘try it for a year’ theory, I think a year isn’t really enough, 3 years feels more like it for you to commit and feel like it’s worth going through all the hassle of moving, getting kids into schools, making friends when you are there. A year will feel too temporary. Treat it in the way someone getting a job overseas would, enjoy it as much as possible rather than an experiment you are undertaking reluctantly?

Also crime is everywhere, statistically the chances of being a victim of crime in London are low, I suspect many bringing that up watch it on the news without having lived there.

burglaries are prolific in my area, everyone has cctv or a ring doorbell now. I called 999 last month as saw someone trying to break into neighbours but I scared them off. I feel safe though but there are things I do to limit the "risk" just second nature when growing up in London.