Taliban enter Kabul

[tttigress]

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

That is most certainly not what happened with the durrand line.

I did my part over there. Tthe afghan army are to blame. If they want to defend themselves they had 20 years and 100s billions, even given an airforce. Enough now.

Broz I agree, the Afghan soldiers made the decision not to use the training and materiel they had been given by the US, UK and others. We can do no more.

The West spent 20 years out there trying to prop them up with training for the Afghan forces/Police/setting up systems and education!

A trillion dollars equivalent has been spent by the allies.....How much more should we spend?

You can't help those that won't help themselves. Shame on the Afghan Forces for dereliction of duty!

Well it was for a reason and life was better for women and girls - until Biden decided to withdraw all the troops in July 😒

Thank you Ladyaria for your posts.

And LadyAria, I am so sorry for what is happening.

It was Trump's decision and according to him 'a deal'. So gone as well as the orange turd's other business.

It was Trump who set this course of action but there was nothing whatsoever preventing Biden from having a review of policy.

It was Trump who set this course of action but there was nothing whatsoever preventing Biden from having a review of policy.

I agree, Trump was awful but this one is on Biden. How could he be so clueless?!

Last month, the president was still insisting that the “likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely”.

www.ft.com/content/71629b28-f730-431a-b8da-a2d45387a0c2

Perhaps we should have committed to leaving a garrison there for a generation. We still have troops and bases in Germany.

I agree with this (but didn’t know that about Germany!) To leave those women and girls to their fate is just appalling.

It’s a living nightmare. I cannot imagine the absolute terror those women and children are experiencing.

We can’t do nothing and leave them to a life of absolute hellish levels of abuse. The world needs to do something.

Tbh, it makes the US the most dangerous country in the world. They have destabilised more countries and governments than any other and have been pushing the Islamophobic narrative for a while now..

You say this and at the same time you bday you have been betrayed by the withdrawal. Why do you want the most dangerous country to stay in Afghanistan then?

I understand you are upset, and rightly so, but you keep blaming everyone. And while there is if course enough blame to go around, and no one comes out of this mess covered in glory, then surely some of the responsibility was on Afghanistan itself.

Horse and water come to mind.

The Taliban are now saying they won’t let Afghan people leave - it’s chilling. I read that the Americans are guarding the airport and that commercial flights are grounded for now. Is that to allow military flights in and out first? When will commercial flights be allowed to start up again? We need to help as many Afghan women and children as possible come to start new lives in the UK and US - it’s the least we can do. I just worry it’s too late

The Taliban are now saying they won’t let Afghan people leave - it’s chilling

This is unsurprising

I read that the Americans are guarding the airport and that commercial flights are grounded for now

Yes, it went to military flights only yesterday. International troops pretty much had to take over security as Afghan fighters races were in some disarray.

Is that to allow military flights in and out first?

Not really. In practice it means only international evacuation flights, by crew and with airframes who are can be put at risk. I can see why getting the foreigners out would be in their interests.

When will commercial flights be allowed to start up again?

No-one knows

We need to help as many Afghan women and children as possible come to start new lives in the UK and US - it’s the least we can do

There are 2.4 million people in Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan and Iran, we can take more in for new lives irrespective of whether anyone else manages to leave

I just worry it’s too late

Yes, the speed of the collapse of the old Afghan government has taken everyone by surprise, and has meant it 's a scramble.

weird DAYC

"as Afghan security forces were in some disarray

They know that they themselves are currently safe (the I'm alright Jack attitude), therefore someone else's safety is of no concern, and they'd rather not hear about it.

I think that's unfair. I feel desperately sorry for the women & children & would like those who want to leave be saved. however i wouldn't want to be there fighting the taliban nor would i want my loved ones to be. some responsibility also has to be placed on countries funding them & some of the Afghan structures that were put in place that were corrupt & self serving.

Let's question why a superpower like the US and Britain could not win this war against the Taliban!?!??

LadyAria good to get another perspective but I’m interested in this. Do you think they could have got rid of or defeated Taliban but didn’t try to?

And what does defeated look like if still around

Is that to allow military flights in and out first? When will commercial flights be allowed to start up again?

I somehow doubt many if commercial operators are going to be rushing to use the airport given the current uncertainty about security..

Those military flights you mention will often be the ones getting people out:

ukdefencejournal.org.uk/american-c-17-evacuates-800-people-in-single-flight/

I'm appalled by this but don't know what we can do? I've written to my (Tory) MP about getting out the people who assisted British forces not that I believe that will do any good

Too many other interests are supportive of the Taliban & yes the innocent Afghans are caught up in it but I don't think the "west" could have won.

@MarshaBradyo

Let's question why a superpower like the US and Britain could not win this war against the Taliban!?!??

LadyAria good to get another perspective but I’m interested in this. Do you think they could have got rid of or defeated Taliban but didn’t try to?

And what does defeated look like if still around

Yes me too, unsure how you defeat what is largely an ideology, and how going in and using weapons against thousands of people when it's impossible to distinguish in certainty who is taliban would be preferable to trying to give the infrastructure, tools and knowledge to equip the country to fight for itself.

[quote bluewanda]It was Trump who set this course of action but there was nothing whatsoever preventing Biden from having a review of policy.

I agree, Trump was awful but this one is on Biden. How could he be so clueless?!

Last month, the president was still insisting that the “likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely”.

www.ft.com/content/71629b28-f730-431a-b8da-a2d45387a0c2[/quote]
For whatever reason, there was apparently no indication, no reasoning, that said the Afghan forces would give up instantly, as they have done.

Biden's statement over the past few days:

@Stealbee

I'm inclined to agree. But since the western alliance has been in Afghanistan, their Government has been given those things and the support to enable what they weren't given.
Kabul is now unrecognisable from 20 years ago due to infra projects.
A family member did 4 tours of the country during the 'war' and although doesn't profess to be an expert he does confidently feel that Afghanistan as a collective, isn't ready or prepared to ascribe to the liberal values that the White West expects everybody else to want to (accepting that elements of the East uphold these principles too).
It seems another modern day case of 'bad' men wanting power and control and having a convenient and widely bought-into ideaology to hang it on.

Afghanistan is like Somalia in that the inhabitants need to decide for themselves how they are going to govern - a system can't be imposed from the outside. It's not ideal but that's the way it is.