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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Taliban enter Kabul

999 replies

tttigress · 15/08/2021 10:01

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

OP posts:
Stealbee · 15/08/2021 22:47

I don't think it's good PR for them as such, everyone knew it would happen. Whilst they have what they want they probably won't poke the bear and risk further western intervention, and the US especially made it clear that they were choosing to withdraw as their work was done- knowing that the afghan army would fail to hold ground but could claim well we prepared them so their fault. The only thing surprising was just how quickly it happened, but it's the lesser of 2 evils for them; fight and face x years of civil war essentially, or surrender and face the devil you somewhat know.

jasjas1973 · 15/08/2021 22:47

@Panickingpavlova

Blue I think we should get at least everyone at the airport out.
Again how?

Mercer thinks people will be left there to die, as to the poor female MP, terrible fate.

rottd · 15/08/2021 22:48

I'm horrified for the women and children, but the overall lack of resistance to the Taliban must show Afghans are majority in favour of their barbaric ways?

Some must just be terrified of their barbaric ways surely?

rottd · 15/08/2021 22:51

I posted on another thread though what is the actual solution?

jasjas1973 · 15/08/2021 22:51

@Stealbee

I don't think it's good PR for them as such, everyone knew it would happen. Whilst they have what they want they probably won't poke the bear and risk further western intervention, and the US especially made it clear that they were choosing to withdraw as their work was done- knowing that the afghan army would fail to hold ground but could claim well we prepared them so their fault. The only thing surprising was just how quickly it happened, but it's the lesser of 2 evils for them; fight and face x years of civil war essentially, or surrender and face the devil you somewhat know.
Are you a US or UK Govt spokesperson?

The "only" thing surprising??? its very big "only" its going to lead to many lives lost, poss westerners too.

The US/UK prescience, with very few numbers and little fighting, enabled a command and control structure, with the Afghan army doing the fighting....not the two choices you pretend were the only ones we had.

OhWhyNot · 15/08/2021 22:54

The regime is no doubt harsher on women and girls but all suffer apart from leaders

I think the fear is so entrenched how can fight against them when you are so fearful of them troops from the west won’t have that same entrenched fear

Stealbee · 15/08/2021 23:01

@jasjas1973 er yes, when they decided to withdraw of course they knew what would happen. I'm not really sure what you're on about, their projections were around 3 months to make substantial ground, not hours. Nowhere did I say it wouldn't cost lives, and those were the 2 choices those in Afghanistan had; I wasn't on about western military. You're really irritating on these threads as you don't read posts properly or post things either with faux naivety or that are actually really ignorant.

powershowerforanhour · 15/08/2021 23:03

Apparently Parliament is being recalled this week in order to discuss the situation and how we should respond

They can debate whether to shut the top bolt or bottom bolt of the stable door first.

Panickingpavlova · 15/08/2021 23:10

Well, I'm no military expert but I would have done all this before kabul fell weeks ago and if it didn't work fall great.

But as taliban took massive swathes of the country with no resistance I would have processed people who wanted to leave and not take risks.
I would have put troops in before to help with the exit...

I would have got quicker process done.

Now it's too late they just need to get as many people out as they can now.
Process paper work later.

The un should be asking people to take the refugees and let people who want to leave leave.

And do that by holding the airport, threatening to go back in unless they can safely get people out.

Tell them unless we safely get out all our people, we come back in +

It's an extraordinary mess.

ThePriceIsNotRight · 15/08/2021 23:12

Well, the consensus is they will allow in Al Qaeda but not ISIS, the Taliban don't do international terrorism, never have, they will give free space to those that will.

Why do you think they require "legitimacy" ? they didn't seek it before and as their main export is Heroin, i doubt they care, they want relations with their nearest neighbours and don't care what europe/usa think.

Bit of a gamble to find out isn't?

All war is essentially a gamble. There are no guarantees in any direction.

As I said, they likely will, that’s something I have. I doubts about. Certainly Pakistan does, as does Yemen, Syria, and Somalia among others. It’s not a problem specific to Afghanistan.

It’s well established that they want, and have wanted for a significant period of time, legitimacy.

www.usip.org/sites/default/files/Afghanistan-Peace-Process_Talibans-Quest-for-International-Recognition.pdf

ThePriceIsNotRight · 15/08/2021 23:13

*something I have no doubts about

HereticFanjo · 15/08/2021 23:13

@Seeingadistance

I can’t stop thinking about the women and girls of Afghanistan. The horrors that they will be forced to endure and the desperate measures they’ll take to escape that fate.

That’s what I keep thinking about. My sisters in Afghanistan and I want to weep and scream and rage about what is happening to them.

This. It is genuinely haunting me at the minute. I wish there was something concrete we could do to help.
withinacceptabletolerances · 15/08/2021 23:18

My cousin was killed in the British army fighting the taliban so that women and girls could have a better future. He lost his life at 23 and for what? For the very people he was fighting for to suffer again. I'm shocked and appalled tonight

TokyoSushi · 15/08/2021 23:22

I'm just horrified at this whole situation. There's rarely a situation where we're so completely powerless too do anything at all to help. The set up there was far from ideal but to just up and leave after 20 years, knowing that this was the likely outcome, those poor people, but particularly so the women and girls.

LadyAria · 15/08/2021 23:40

As an Afghan I can tell you that honestly, every Afghan in the world is devastated right now. It is honestly neverending. Seeing your country and people constantly being murdered has actually called a mental health issue to many Afghans worldwide. We just want peace. Afghans just want peace, they just want to go to school, be educated, good jobs, homes, normal life like any other in the World.

This is NOT a civil war, this is a group of animals called the Taliban, funded by America, created by Pakistani government literally tearing through Afghanistan imposing their version of Islam upon Afghans. A version that is not even true to the religion...

It's such an extremely sad day for us, for humanity, for the World has truly failed Afghanistan today...

LadyAria · 15/08/2021 23:44

The worst thing is, 9/11 had nothing to do with Afghanistan, no Afghans were part of the terrorism involved, Osama bin laden was found in Pakistan.

All those lives lost for nothing.

My heart bleeds for the innocent Afghans murdered since 1979 when the Russians invaded and haven't known peace since, for the hundreds of thousands murdered during the American campaign to free Afghanistan, the service men and women killed fighting an agenda by their governments that they had no part in...

Our hearts are heavy tonight. There are just no words left for the horror we know is coming.

osprey24 · 15/08/2021 23:46

LadyAria do you think the Afghan military have failed Afghans too? by not even trying to stand and fight the taliban.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 15/08/2021 23:46

This is NOT a civil war, this is a group of animals called the Taliban, funded by America, created by Pakistani government literally tearing through Afghanistan imposing their version of Islam upon Afghans. A version that is not even true to the religion...

But how are they able to tear through the country if the country doesn’t want them?

Buttercup54321 · 15/08/2021 23:48

Is there any way of getting the very young out? Any charitable organisations doing this?

MyLifeNow20 · 15/08/2021 23:48

I keep trying to understand this and why our troops are being sent out. I still dont get it. Can someone please explain what is happening to me?

osprey24 · 15/08/2021 23:50

The Paras have been sent to try and bring the embassy staff and other UK nationals to safety.

Askmeaboutpins · 15/08/2021 23:55
Sad
LadyAria · 15/08/2021 23:56

Again, this is NOT a civil war, this is a Pakistani proxy war and planned for a long time. The US sold Afghanistan out to Pakistani government with their Taliban, where do you think Taliban had a safe haven to reconvene all these years?

I can't really understand why if they are so happy with Taliban, why they don't have them running Pakistan instead!?!??!??

Afghanistan has become the battleground of the world to carry out their frustrations on. Why are afghan lives so worthless to everyone???

Please don't believe the Taliban propaganda that they have changed, we have already got actual reports off the ground in Afghanistan that they have literally forced young girls to marry them, forcibly taken them away.

In this last year they have targeted maternity hospitals killing new mothers and newborns, targeted universities killing the hope of Afghanistan, schools, anywhere and everywhere.

They are barbaric uneducated thugs and the only way to keep people under control is to keep them uneducated.

Don't believe the biased reporting of the BBC, lol at the reports from Afghans there right now, literally scared for their lives, they can't run and are now in fear of their young girls being taken.

Afghanistan had a puppet corrupt government enforced by the US and now they have the Taliban who are animals. Its just evil after evil.

Please keep Afghanistan in your prayers tonight, they really do need it. When you look at your daughters, think of how desperate the situation is for many who have no way out. Their only faults are that they were born Afghan.

It's so sad to see my beautiful country and country people who just want peace to be subjected to this again. Never in a million years did I think they would have to go through this again. Its a sad sad day.

I would post photos of what the Taliban have done and their massacres, but I don't want to cause anyone trauma here...

tynat · 15/08/2021 23:57

@LadyAria the situation is horrendous, what would you do to stop the Taliban? I think the world should act together but they won't.

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