Taliban enter Kabul

[tttigress]

I was in my early 20's when 9/11 happened, the last 20 years has been overshadowed by endless wars without clearly defined objectives (original point of going into Afghanistan was to "get" Al Qaeda, there was then massive mission creep)

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

@DuncinToffee

Looks like there might have been a re-think on the student visa

twitter.com/caoilfhionnanna/status/1426979871478239238?s=19

Good to hear reports the UK has reversed this inhumane decision,& visas to be expedited for the 35 Afghan #Chevening scholars.

How are they going to get them out now?

@Peregrina

Can those poor students get to the airport to get a plane out? Or is it too late for them?

Exactly.

It's looking dicey enough to get the UK ambassador out and we know exactly where he is.

@ThePriceIsNotRight

They likely will, the Saudis sponsor the same. Whether they will actually strike outside of their borders is debatable, IMO. I’m certainly not saying with absolute confidence that they won’t, but I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion that they will.

There are a multitude of factors they will have to consider. They absolutely do want international recognition as a government, and sponsoring terrorism is entirely counter productive to that. You can get away with a lot more as ‘freedom fighters’ then you can as a fledgling government seeking legitimacy.

Well, the consensus is they will allow in Al Qaeda but not ISIS, the Taliban don't do international terrorism, never have, they will give free space to those that will.

Why do you think they require "legitimacy" ? they didn't seek it before and as their main export is Heroin, i doubt they care, they want relations with their nearest neighbours and don't care what europe/usa think.

Bit of a gamble to find out isn't it?

@Peregrina

Can those poor students get to the airport to get a plane out? Or is it too late for them?

No idea but it is probably too late. I can't find any further information/comments on it at the moment so it might not be true.

@Peregrina

Can those poor students get to the airport to get a plane out? Or is it too late for them?

What planes?

1000s of westerners in Kabel and no commercial flights now, military only and the Taliban have the means to shoot them down if they wish.

Would take months and many lives to re secure Kabel now.

The country is incredibly corrupt & also tribal. No institutional history or support of army. Vast sums of western money spent, but funnelled to corrupt officials who then did not pay army or police. The west can do nothing. Sorry to say it, but the Afghans do not have the will or initiative to resist the Taliban. A sad situation, dysfunctional country

Well that happened very very quickly

How were they so unaware of the strength of the Taliban

Won’t be long before the west are back in Afghanistan

@XingMing

$86 billion has been spent by the USA in/on Afghanistan, and it has taken six or seven weeks to lose the country to the Taliban/Islamists. I don't think the Chinese will be welcome when they try economic invasion either. But how awful for the Afghan people.

I'm not sure about the Chinese being unwelcome- haven't they already been in talks with the Taliban? China won't care about what the Taliban do in Afghanistan as long as they don't cause any problems for China. They'll probably be happy to invest some money and buy off the leadership. Afghanistan is strategically placed for them and could play an important role in their Belt and Road Initiative

amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/15/boris-johnson-promises-visas-to-afghan-students-amid-taliban-advance

Amid fears among the students that their scholarships could make them targets of the Taliban, the prime minister intervened to say efforts would be made to accelerate their visas, hours after the Foreign Office defended its decision to prevent them taking up places this September.

It seems a bit vague

Wherever was the worst case scenario situation?
We saw how isis tore through Syria, we know they are brutal and ruthless and have other groups of working for them as well.

So where was the worse situation planning.

Trust is gone.

There is no excuse in these times with them sheer amount of instant information we have!

Oh why not...

It's unfathomable.

Biden was confident about few weeks ago that the afghan army was far superior to the taliban.

But even dipping a toe into this complex situation brings up tribal issues, a lack of feeling of nationhood, no unity in the army, deep mistrust generally between villages and regions, no trust in the local police, rife corruption everywhere, drugs, herion everywhere, abuse.. Lack of human rights everywhere.. An absolute shit show of human rights...

Constant books, documentaries about the failure of the Misson... The failure to get a trusted government into power and failure to understand the taliban.

Where was worse contingency situation planning going on!

Best case and worse case???

AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

They absolutely weren’t a waste of time in the sense that life for women improved hugely in the last 20 years. But now we’ve pulled out and are back to square one it does seem massively pointless.

Biden has made a terrible error of judgement here IMO. I’m so disappointed.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891953/A-mothers-eyes-gouged-young-girls-kidnapped-sex-slaves-SHUKRIA-BARAKZAI.html

Good piece on R4 atm

Talking about failure of US on this and Al Qaeda- may not be as bad as some think as will bring retribution

[quote bluewanda]AIBU to think the last 20 years in Afghanistan was a total waste of time?

They absolutely weren’t a waste of time in the sense that life for women improved hugely in the last 20 years. But now we’ve pulled out and are back to square one it does seem massively pointless.

Biden has made a terrible error of judgement here IMO. I’m so disappointed.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891953/A-mothers-eyes-gouged-young-girls-kidnapped-sex-slaves-SHUKRIA-BARAKZAI.html[/quote]
Apparently, this decision was made with the full co op of the UK and other western governments.

We might wish to blame the Americans but the reality is, we are either in a partnership or the relationship with the US is worthless.

Talking about failure of US on this and Al Qaeda- may not be as bad as some think as will bring retribution

How do you mean, bring retribution? My worry is the thousands of women and children who are going to get caught in the crossfire - abused, raped, beaten and killed.

@MarshaBradyo

Good piece on R4 atm

Talking about failure of US on this and Al Qaeda- may not be as bad as some think as will bring retribution

Since when has Al Qeada/ISIS worried about "retribution?"

Its a western failure, not just a US one.

We needed 130k troops from 50 countries to invade Afghan, thats isn't going to happen any time soon.

Didn’t catch speaker’s name but talked down the threat of terroism here as Taliban won’t want to re-invite retribution

He didn’t say it’s definite but it was somewhat reassuring to hear

He does agree it’s the people there that are more in danger

Boris Johnson said in an interview that at least the girls have had 20 years of education as a result of Western intervention (as though we should celebrate this as a success) - they have now been abandoned and their education will be worth nothing, and quite possibly put them in more danger. Apparently schools exams should have taken place in Afghanistan these last few days - all cancelled of course.

@inpossible heartbreaking

As the UK is impotent, whatever Al Qaeda do will not bring about any retribution from us.

Listen to R4 - it’s very good insight on exactly the topic.

Plus views on whether U.K. military should stay alone

He does agree it’s the people there that are more in danger

I hadn’t even thought about the threat to people here - it’s those poor women and girls in Afghanistan that I’m so worried about. Can you even begin to imagine the absolute terror they must be experiencing? How can we just abandon them to their fate?!

Thanks for the link to the R4 program... interesting.

I just don’t believe we shall turn our back and let them get in with things

It’s not how the west or the US with us in tow operates

And as for the Taliban are they happy with just control of Afghanistan does their desire for power end with Afghanistan

This will rumble on for another 20 years with us involved in some way

MarshA loads of "experts" have said they will allow the country to be used a training ground for terror, allow Pakistan to carry out its more hard line practise... Etc. This catastrophic fall will alone give all the terror groups a massive boost, the pr is so terrible..

Blue I think we should get at least everyone at the airport out.