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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Treated like an alcoholic by midwife?

736 replies

MyMabel · 14/08/2021 17:45

Anyone else been in this situation?

Ok our telephone consultation appointment I was asked how much I drink prior to finding out I was pregnant - I said (honestly) I had about one or two gins every night, the occasion glass or two of wine instead. Couldn’t tell them in units as I have no idea.

I was never drunk, never drank until DP was home as we have a toddler DD so wanted to make sure if anything happened one of us can drive, plus I wouldn’t drink while solely responsible for her. - again, never drunk or even dizzy. Just a glass or two while watching telly before bed. I suppose with COVID and all I was just bored?

Anyway, was asked if I drank since finding out- said no, because I haven’t.

Come to my face to face appointment; Midwife explains that due to my alcohol intake before being pregnant I’ve been referred to speak to someone. I was in a bit of shock to ask questions and just said ok. But after I left I felt mortally embarrassed and now a bit worried they think I’ve got a drinking problem?!

Maybe I’m not BU in the sense that they could perhaps help someone who struggled with alcohol by doing this routinely.. but AIBU to think I really don’t need to speak to someone regarding what I drank in the evenings?

Did I really drink THAT much too much? I get it was too much and probably not healthy for my body.. but I don’t think it’s that bad?!

OP posts:
Creamsoda77 · 19/08/2021 22:17

i drink wine every eve, about 1 glass or 2, that's fine and nothing wrong with it, don't worry x

MrsSkylerWhite · 19/08/2021 22:34

DingDongThongs

It's literally your funeral...

I've just buried a wonderful man who thought excessive drinking was OK. His death from cancer was awful. It's literally up to you to decide your path.“

So very sorry for your loss.

Too many people sadly still don’t recognise the connection between excess alcohol and cancers.

DoYouLikeOwls · 19/08/2021 22:34

@DingDongThongs

It's literally your funeral...

I've just buried a wonderful man who thought excessive drinking was OK. His death from cancer was awful. It's literally up to you to decide your path.

Sorry for your loss.

Who was this directed at though because if it was the OP then it's a bit much. Most of my loved ones who have died of cancer didn't drink much or at all. My Brother who died in a car accident had zero alcohol that week.

If it was liver cancer then I understand as someone I know died if being an alcoholic.

Creamsoda77 · 19/08/2021 22:36

@MrsSkylerWhite

DingDongThongs

It's literally your funeral...

I've just buried a wonderful man who thought excessive drinking was OK. His death from cancer was awful. It's literally up to you to decide your path.“

So very sorry for your loss.

Too many people sadly still don’t recognise the connection between excess alcohol and cancers.

Are you for real?
TheNinny · 19/08/2021 22:42

It’s probably not because they think you have an alcohol problem, but habits like that can be hard to break for anything.
There is the addictive element to drinking that you may not even realise is there until you try to stop completely. But that doesn’t make you an alcoholic or necessarily dependent

MrsSkylerWhite · 19/08/2021 22:45

Creamsoda77

MrsSkylerWhite
DingDongThongs

It's literally your funeral...

I've just buried a wonderful man who thought excessive drinking was OK. His death from cancer was awful. It's literally up to you to decide your path.“

So very sorry for your loss.

Too many people sadly still don’t recognise the connection between excess alcohol and cancers.

“Are you for real?”

Sorry, what?

I was agreeing with DingDongThongs, whose partner thought excessive drinking was okay but tragically died from cancer.

I was simply saying that whilst risks such as liver disease are widely recognised, many people don’t associate excess drinking with cancers.

What’s wrong with that?

DoYouLikeOwls · 19/08/2021 22:54

I was simply saying that whilst risks such as liver disease are widely recognised, many people don’t associate excess drinking with cancers

The OP and most people aren't excess drinkers though. Yes, a couple of drinks may increase the risk of cancer but so does eating meat etc. People choose to live their life it doesn't mean they are bad people.

We could all live in a bubble and maybe live till we are 110 but not everyone chooses to live like that.

People do dangerous sports. Some people aren't wearing masks now. We are doing our own risk assessments. It doesn't mean we are raving alcholics.

MrsSkylerWhite · 19/08/2021 23:02

DoYouLikeOwls

The OP and most people aren't excess drinkers though. Yes, a couple of drinks may increase the risk of cancer but so does eating meat etc. People choose to live their life it doesn't mean they are bad people.

We could all live in a bubble and maybe live till we are 110 but not everyone chooses to live like that.

People do dangerous sports. Some people aren't wearing masks now. We are doing our own risk assessments. It doesn't mean we are raving alcholics.”

Again, I was responding to a poster who categorically stated that her deceased partner did not believe his excess drinking was a problem.

I have one breast. I will never know if that is because for 25 years or so I had a glass or two of wine most nights. I didn’t think during those years that that was excessive. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. Who knows 🤷‍♀️ If I could live life again though, I’d probably avoid alcohol.

DoYouLikeOwls · 19/08/2021 23:10

MrsSkylerWhite

I'm sorry what you have been through and how you feel. We all have different life experiences and unfortunately some of mine haven't been great too.

MrsSkylerWhite · 19/08/2021 23:12

DoYouLikeOwls

MrsSkylerWhite

I'm sorry what you have been through and how you feel. We all have different life experiences and unfortunately some of mine haven't been great too.“

No worries.
Sorry to read that.

DoYouLikeOwls · 19/08/2021 23:18

@MrsSkylerWhite

DoYouLikeOwls

MrsSkylerWhite

I'm sorry what you have been through and how you feel. We all have different life experiences and unfortunately some of mine haven't been great too.“

No worries.
Sorry to read that.

Thank you
pam290358 · 20/08/2021 15:44

@Belladonna12. Well to my mind, taking part in a study is voluntary, and I wouldn’t have thought there’s much point in volunteering to help research if you’re going to lie !! Whereas a MW or any other health professionals’ questioning around consumption may be perceived as having repercussions - which is probably why some posters on the thread have encouraged lying. Having said that, I haven’t suggested that anyone is lying to anyone - the OP certainly didn’t lie to the MW, she was truthful about the amount she drank as she saw it, but the MW clearly had concerns about the true amounts consumed because the OP reported they were home measures, and the fact that it had been regular drinking. I really wasn’t trying to answer whether the MW was right or wrong in referring on - I assumed the OP had hit some kind of target from the questioning and the MW had no choice. But for reasons I’ve stated numerous times, I don’t believe the NHS approach to be either ridiculous or overzealous ‘policing’. They must see an awful lot of disease caused by alcohol abuse and I presume this is the reason for the low threshold. Prevention is better than cure, and from their point of view it’s aimed at saving money in the long run in treating disease caused by long term alcohol abuse.

I tried to address the OP’s question as to whether other people thought she was drinking too much, by giving a truthful account of my own experience, and the advice given to me by several health professionals, which is that low levels of alcohol, drunk on a regular basis can be harmful for several reasons. Home drinking can mean you’re drinking more if you don’t measure the amounts properly, drinking regularly can be habit forming and can lead to problems long term, and, as several posts on here have demonstrated, some people have little or no idea what constitutes a unit of alcohol or how to use the recommended weekly units. You, and several other posters jumped on me, citing various other reasons why fatty liver had developed. Do you really think that these hadn’t been discussed and ruled out ? The liver function tests indicated fatty liver and I HAD been drinking more, and on a regular basis, and they had been home measures. On retesting several months later - after I stopped alcohol intake altogether - the results were normal. I really don’t think there can be much argument as to what caused the problem in the first place.

Since that time, I’ve tried to learn more about how alcohol affects the body, because I don’t want to get into that position again - not least because I’ve seen alcohol related illness in my own family and it’s devastating for all concerned. I tried to share some of what I learned here, and I’m quite shocked by the lengths people will go to - either by persistent argument or sheer unpleasantness, judging by some of the posts - to try to disprove something which, for whatever reason, clearly makes them uncomfortable.

In the end, how much you drink is a personal choice - you have to weigh the risks against your own consumption/enjoyment. I’m not saying, and have never advocated not drinking.

@DingDongThongs. I’m so very sorry for your loss. I lost a much loved close relative in similar circumstances about 5 years ago. She was drinking regularly, as much as a bottle of red wine most nights and didn’t see any harm in it - wouldn’t follow medical advice to either cut down or stop, and wouldn’t listen to friends or relatives who were worried for her. Regular vigilance liver scans showed she was deteriorating, but she was never diagnosed with actual cirrhosis, and I think she used this to comfort herself and stay in denial. She had a shock diagnosis of advanced lung cancer after collapsing, and died a couple of weeks later. The cancer was determined to have started in her liver from a lesion that the scans had missed, and had spread rapidly to her bones and lungs. It’s so difficult to watch someone harming themselves for so long like this - inevitably the person won’t admit to a problem, which makes helping them impossible. You find yourself in the awful position of standing by helplessly and waiting for something terrible to happen. I admit, that experience is also probably why I’ve been so vocal on this thread, because when you read between the lines, a lot of people seem to be demonstrating a similar reluctance to accept that they may be harming themselves further down the road. Damage from alcohol is largely silent for many years, and by the time it does start to cause problems it’s more difficult to deal with because the person is older, damage may be extensive, or the person may be much more dependent. I lost my husband to cancer a couple of years ago, and I know how awful the journey is. My sincere condolences.

DingDongThongs · 20/08/2021 16:21

StepDad not partner. Husband and I don't drink unless it's Xmas/anniversary etc.

He was a talented, educated and highly skilled guy. He worked and achieved a lot. He died of bowel cancer that spread to his brain, bones, everywhere.

He was always the life and soul of the party. He was a lot of fun. Please OP I've seen children with FAS and it severely impacts them and their quality of lives. See the midwife and get help.

We all miss him immensely and our lives are quieter for his passing.

DingDongThongs · 20/08/2021 16:25

@Belladonna12
Well done on the liver! He loved going to gigs and he was highly paid. We went to see Ozzy in Mcr. I miss him lots and my children too. The cancer spread to his liver and he went yellow, a pale waxy yellow.

It worries me how many people think regular alcohol abuse isn't a problem. Just because it's socially acceptable doesn't mean it's safe and even more dangerous in pregnancy. FAS is evil and blights children's lives.

Sorry for your loss xx

DingDongThongs · 20/08/2021 16:26

OP if you're lying about your alcohol consumption you HAVE a DRINK PROBLEM!

Belladonna12 · 20/08/2021 16:50

[quote pam290358]@Belladonna12. Well to my mind, taking part in a study is voluntary, and I wouldn’t have thought there’s much point in volunteering to help research if you’re going to lie !! Whereas a MW or any other health professionals’ questioning around consumption may be perceived as having repercussions - which is probably why some posters on the thread have encouraged lying. Having said that, I haven’t suggested that anyone is lying to anyone - the OP certainly didn’t lie to the MW, she was truthful about the amount she drank as she saw it, but the MW clearly had concerns about the true amounts consumed because the OP reported they were home measures, and the fact that it had been regular drinking. I really wasn’t trying to answer whether the MW was right or wrong in referring on - I assumed the OP had hit some kind of target from the questioning and the MW had no choice. But for reasons I’ve stated numerous times, I don’t believe the NHS approach to be either ridiculous or overzealous ‘policing’. They must see an awful lot of disease caused by alcohol abuse and I presume this is the reason for the low threshold. Prevention is better than cure, and from their point of view it’s aimed at saving money in the long run in treating disease caused by long term alcohol abuse.

I tried to address the OP’s question as to whether other people thought she was drinking too much, by giving a truthful account of my own experience, and the advice given to me by several health professionals, which is that low levels of alcohol, drunk on a regular basis can be harmful for several reasons. Home drinking can mean you’re drinking more if you don’t measure the amounts properly, drinking regularly can be habit forming and can lead to problems long term, and, as several posts on here have demonstrated, some people have little or no idea what constitutes a unit of alcohol or how to use the recommended weekly units. You, and several other posters jumped on me, citing various other reasons why fatty liver had developed. Do you really think that these hadn’t been discussed and ruled out ? The liver function tests indicated fatty liver and I HAD been drinking more, and on a regular basis, and they had been home measures. On retesting several months later - after I stopped alcohol intake altogether - the results were normal. I really don’t think there can be much argument as to what caused the problem in the first place.

Since that time, I’ve tried to learn more about how alcohol affects the body, because I don’t want to get into that position again - not least because I’ve seen alcohol related illness in my own family and it’s devastating for all concerned. I tried to share some of what I learned here, and I’m quite shocked by the lengths people will go to - either by persistent argument or sheer unpleasantness, judging by some of the posts - to try to disprove something which, for whatever reason, clearly makes them uncomfortable.

In the end, how much you drink is a personal choice - you have to weigh the risks against your own consumption/enjoyment. I’m not saying, and have never advocated not drinking.

@DingDongThongs. I’m so very sorry for your loss. I lost a much loved close relative in similar circumstances about 5 years ago. She was drinking regularly, as much as a bottle of red wine most nights and didn’t see any harm in it - wouldn’t follow medical advice to either cut down or stop, and wouldn’t listen to friends or relatives who were worried for her. Regular vigilance liver scans showed she was deteriorating, but she was never diagnosed with actual cirrhosis, and I think she used this to comfort herself and stay in denial. She had a shock diagnosis of advanced lung cancer after collapsing, and died a couple of weeks later. The cancer was determined to have started in her liver from a lesion that the scans had missed, and had spread rapidly to her bones and lungs. It’s so difficult to watch someone harming themselves for so long like this - inevitably the person won’t admit to a problem, which makes helping them impossible. You find yourself in the awful position of standing by helplessly and waiting for something terrible to happen. I admit, that experience is also probably why I’ve been so vocal on this thread, because when you read between the lines, a lot of people seem to be demonstrating a similar reluctance to accept that they may be harming themselves further down the road. Damage from alcohol is largely silent for many years, and by the time it does start to cause problems it’s more difficult to deal with because the person is older, damage may be extensive, or the person may be much more dependent. I lost my husband to cancer a couple of years ago, and I know how awful the journey is. My sincere condolences.[/quote]
People haven't necessarily volunteered to be in a study about alcohol. A large proportion will have use annonymised medical records. Others may have been asked when attending medical appointments if they would take part in a questionnaire. People who don't want to divulge how much they drink won't necessarily refuse to answer the question. It's easier to lie. Even if they were volunteers why do you think they would no underestimate how much they drink at home?

Your experience of liver damage seems irrelevant to OP as she is not drinking during pregnancy.

Belladonna12 · 20/08/2021 16:52

@DingDongThongs

OP if you're lying about your alcohol consumption you HAVE a DRINK PROBLEM!
What makes you think OP is lying?
DoYouLikeOwls · 20/08/2021 17:43

@DingDongThongs

OP if you're lying about your alcohol consumption you HAVE a DRINK PROBLEM!
Have you read the same thread that everyone else has?
Wheretoeattweenandteen · 20/08/2021 17:52

" his death from cancer was awful"

Flowers

It's utterly wicked that here we are forcing terminally ill people to last until their body gives out. We don't ask this if animals

It's an absolute stain on our humanity and I had to watch a terminal ill 80 year old die begging to go.

It's a disgrace

DoYouLikeOwls · 20/08/2021 18:02

Wheretoeattweenandteen

Totally agree.

My MIL died of bowel cancer and didn't hardly drink. Cancer is a bastard.

pam290358 · 20/08/2021 18:04

@Belladonna. Never said my experience was relevant to OP’s pregnancy and actually clarified in my last post that I was answering the wider question she asked about whether people thought she had been drinking too much previously. I’ve taken part in studies myself over 50 years, as I have a birth defect. I know how they work. I’ve tried to present a balanced view and you’ve called me out on almost every aspect. As I said, some will go to any lengths to dispute information which makes them feel uncomfortable. Definitely done with it now.

LobsterNapkin · 20/08/2021 19:09

I would be pretty pissed off if my midwife did that. For her to ask a few more questions, sure - they have to sometimes dig a bit to get the real story with a patient they don't really know.

The medical guidelines on this stuff are mostly about health outcomes. So possibly it's not so great for your liver when you get to be old. But it's entirely possible to drink two drinks a night and not be an addict or have behavioral issues related to it. There are plenty of cultures where two glasses of wine or two beer with your food every night would be completely normal.

LobsterNapkin · 20/08/2021 19:15

@Ingridla

This is why people lie to their doctors about this type of thing. Ridiculous.
Yes, this is true. Many people just don't want to put up with doctors giving them morality lectures, and they are well aware that the things they do, eat and drink might have health effects. They are also aware that they will die and probably the process will suck.
Belladonna12 · 20/08/2021 19:41

[quote pam290358]@Belladonna. Never said my experience was relevant to OP’s pregnancy and actually clarified in my last post that I was answering the wider question she asked about whether people thought she had been drinking too much previously. I’ve taken part in studies myself over 50 years, as I have a birth defect. I know how they work. I’ve tried to present a balanced view and you’ve called me out on almost every aspect. As I said, some will go to any lengths to dispute information which makes them feel uncomfortable. Definitely done with it now.[/quote]
You don't know how all research works if you think it always involved asking people if they want to take part in it. As I said, a great deal involves using annoymised medical records.
OP didn't ask whether she could have been drinking to much for perfect health before being pregnant. She gets that what she was drinking previously probably wasn't that healthy so I don't see why you keep lecturing on it. She was questioning whether she really needed to speak to someone now even though she is not drinking any alcohol and won't be for many months. Nobody including you has given a reason for why she needs to be referred other than she might be lying about not drinking during pregnancy which is ridiculous because anyone could be lying.

Megan2018 · 20/08/2021 20:04

I drank 3-4 bottles of wine a week before DD and my midwife wasn’t fussed!
I didn’t drink a drop after BFP and only drink occasionally now (DD is 2).

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