Treated like an alcoholic by midwife?

[MyMabel]

Anyone else been in this situation?

Ok our telephone consultation appointment I was asked how much I drink prior to finding out I was pregnant - I said (honestly) I had about one or two gins every night, the occasion glass or two of wine instead. Couldn’t tell them in units as I have no idea.

I was never drunk, never drank until DP was home as we have a toddler DD so wanted to make sure if anything happened one of us can drive, plus I wouldn’t drink while solely responsible for her. - again, never drunk or even dizzy. Just a glass or two while watching telly before bed. I suppose with COVID and all I was just bored?

Anyway, was asked if I drank since finding out- said no, because I haven’t.

Come to my face to face appointment; Midwife explains that due to my alcohol intake before being pregnant I’ve been referred to speak to someone. I was in a bit of shock to ask questions and just said ok. But after I left I felt mortally embarrassed and now a bit worried they think I’ve got a drinking problem?!

Maybe I’m not BU in the sense that they could perhaps help someone who struggled with alcohol by doing this routinely.. but AIBU to think I really don’t need to speak to someone regarding what I drank in the evenings?

Did I really drink THAT much too much? I get it was too much and probably not healthy for my body.. but I don’t think it’s that bad?!

@Dogoodfeelgood. 250ml of wine is three units of alcohol, and possibly more depending on the ABV of the wine concerned - I know this because I do the same thing and measure everything after my scare. There’s a table online somewhere that tells you how many units 100ml of the various wines according to ABV.

Yes we all know that according to medical experts etc that’s probably too much. However most people I know drink one or two glasses of wine or similar on most days. It’s probably as you were honest because most midwives assuming you actually drink way more as people often minimise how much you drink. I wouldn’t stress.

[quote pam290358]@Ozanj. Yep. Maybe not necessarily alcoholics, but certainly some who recognise what we’re talking about in themselves and will say anything to refute the information given, because to accept it means they have to do something about it.[/quote]
Yes precisely.

@Ozanj

Lots of alcoholics and pregnancy drinkers on this thread today, judgint by the posts.

Bingo. I was wondering how long it would be before someone said that.

[quote pam290358]@Ozanj. Yep. Maybe not necessarily alcoholics, but certainly some who recognise what we’re talking about in themselves and will say anything to refute the information given, because to accept it means they have to do something about it.[/quote]
Oh yes, everyone who disagrees with you is a problem drinker. It can't possibly be that they just think you are talking nonsense.

@Belladonna12 @Ozanj what about anyone’s comments tells anyone that
A) people are alcoholics
B) drink during pregnancy

How horribly judgemental and quite frankly disgusting from both of you!

One or two drinks (and not every night) does not make someone an alcoholic. An alcoholic is someone who has an addiction, addiction is not knowing when to stop! The OP clearly knows when to stop, and she has!!!

I’m appalled by the pair of you!! Personally I think you’re both trolling!!

@pam290358

I did say I was putting the pregnancy issue aside for a moment to look at alcohol consumption in general. I’m aware that 50% of liver damage is not alcohol related, but that’s really not relevant since the thread deals with alcohol consumption. Liver function testing can differentiate between the two by looking at the GGT results, which indicate alcohol consumption, and fatty liver, or Steatosis is almost always caused by alcohol, it being the first stage of alcoholic liver disease. In my own case a relatively small amount of alcohol was all it took over several months to set me on the road to liver damage, and according to my GP at the time, this isn’t uncommon. In her experience many of her patients are surprised by a diagnosis of liver damage because they consider themselves moderate drinkers and don’t report any symptoms - a lot of the time the liver problems show up in tests done for different reasons. As I said, you don’t need to be a raging alcoholic to be susceptible. Several studies have been done into the change in drinking habits during the pandemic and the results of some of them are concerning.

My point is that many of the people clutching their pearls about OP pre pregnancy drinking are probably doing more damage to their own livers by eating fatty foods etc. you don't know that the problem with your liver was caused entirely by alcohol unless you had a liver scan before you started drinking to compare. OP may have drunk a bit more than is healthy but a lot of people do things which aren't great for optimum health and so what? She won't be drinking for nine-months at least and may decide not to drink much afterwards so why the need for a referral?. The only reason she has been referred is because someone has decided she may not be telling the truth about not drinking during pregnancy which is ridiculous. Someone who says they don't drink all is just as likely to be lying about drinking during pregnancy.

[quote Supergirl1958]**@Belladonna12* @Ozanj* what about anyone’s comments tells anyone that
A) people are alcoholics
B) drink during pregnancy

How horribly judgemental and quite frankly disgusting from both of you!

One or two drinks (and not every night) does not make someone an alcoholic. An alcoholic is someone who has an addiction, addiction is not knowing when to stop! The OP clearly knows when to stop, and she has!!!

I’m appalled by the pair of you!! Personally I think you’re both trolling!![/quote]
Hmm. I think you are confusing me with someone else if you think I have suggested one or two drinks makes someone an alcoholic. Lol.

@Belladonna12 my mistake...the sarcasm in the post where you say ‘Bingo’ in my defence does not really translate all that well! I’ve read back your posts and can see that you are on the OPs side.

[quote Supergirl1958]**@Belladonna12* @Ozanj* what about anyone’s comments tells anyone that
A) people are alcoholics
B) drink during pregnancy

How horribly judgemental and quite frankly disgusting from both of you!

One or two drinks (and not every night) does not make someone an alcoholic. An alcoholic is someone who has an addiction, addiction is not knowing when to stop! The OP clearly knows when to stop, and she has!!!

I’m appalled by the pair of you!! Personally I think you’re both trolling!![/quote]
Yep. You’re right. Goading for a response - ignore.

We do what we do to get through stuff.

@Ozanj

Lots of alcoholics and pregnancy drinkers on this thread today, judgint by the posts.

Well that’s your view Whist it’s definitely writ large there are some sanctimonious gobshites on here

Interesting thread. I’ve read all the posts. There’s a large grey area (nuance might be a bit of a stretch) that’s not being discussed much.

For context, I’m a doctor, I don’t work in the UK and I rarely drink.

Most of this will be stating the obvious, but in fairness, so is the mention that free-pouring tends to mean bigger drinks.

It’s really difficult to assess how much alcohol intake causes damage, either at an individual or a population level. There are under-estimators, over-estimators, minimisers, people who are completely honest and correct and people who genuinely have trouble adding it up or remembering. One thing I will say, is most people I’ve met who are either intoxicated or have an alcohol-related issue are admitting to taking in a huge amount more than OP. And I’m not doubling their estimates.

Also, it’s worth bearing in mind that different people will have different alcohol tolerances based on genetic factors (but I’m no expert on that) as well as body size, history of alcohol use and even what a person ate that day. And some people will be more sensitive to the long term physical effects than others.

In (important) addition, some people are far more inclined to suffer from mental health difficulties in response to alcohol consumption.

My country’s healthcare system is less structured than the NHS in terms of referrals, but whether or not I refer on will take many factors into account, with a heavy emphasis on patient consent and desire for help.

So as I see it, a drink or two a night may be a big deal for some people, but not for others. I can’t predict who will be in the big deal group and who will not. But I can work towards assessing their needs in collaboration with my patients.

Definitions of addiction are many. Daily use doesn’t necessarily mean dependence, but it can. Inability to stop can indicate problem use, but isn’t always an addiction.

Obviously the safest alcohol is none, but I don’t think that’s necessarily realistic or best. Much like refined sugar. Even running (and engaging in other “healthy” habits) too much and not taking appropriate precautions can damage the human body (and about a million other similar examples).

@ValidUser

Interesting thread. I’ve read all the posts. There’s a large grey area (nuance might be a bit of a stretch) that’s not being discussed much.

For context, I’m a doctor, I don’t work in the UK and I rarely drink.

Most of this will be stating the obvious, but in fairness, so is the mention that free-pouring tends to mean bigger drinks.

It’s really difficult to assess how much alcohol intake causes damage, either at an individual or a population level. There are under-estimators, over-estimators, minimisers, people who are completely honest and correct and people who genuinely have trouble adding it up or remembering. One thing I will say, is most people I’ve met who are either intoxicated or have an alcohol-related issue are admitting to taking in a huge amount more than OP. And I’m not doubling their estimates.

Also, it’s worth bearing in mind that different people will have different alcohol tolerances based on genetic factors (but I’m no expert on that) as well as body size, history of alcohol use and even what a person ate that day. And some people will be more sensitive to the long term physical effects than others.

In (important) addition, some people are far more inclined to suffer from mental health difficulties in response to alcohol consumption.

My country’s healthcare system is less structured than the NHS in terms of referrals, but whether or not I refer on will take many factors into account, with a heavy emphasis on patient consent and desire for help.

So as I see it, a drink or two a night may be a big deal for some people, but not for others. I can’t predict who will be in the big deal group and who will not. But I can work towards assessing their needs in collaboration with my patients.

Definitions of addiction are many. Daily use doesn’t necessarily mean dependence, but it can. Inability to stop can indicate problem use, but isn’t always an addiction.

Obviously the safest alcohol is none, but I don’t think that’s necessarily realistic or best. Much like refined sugar. Even running (and engaging in other “healthy” habits) too much and not taking appropriate precautions can damage the human body (and about a million other similar examples).

Balanced viewpoint right here, thank you.

@doris9034

A person is "defined" as an alcoholic not by how much they drink, what they drink or how often, but by the fact that when they do drink they are unable to stop.

You just pulled that out of your arse and are stating it as fact.

Plenty of people who are alcoholics can and do stop after a certain number of drinks, the notion that you’re only an alcoholic if you drink yourself into a stupor every time is incorrect and harmful. Someone who drinks a bottle of wine every night and feels they can’t cope without it is no less an alcoholic than the person who starts drinking and ends up blocking out in a pool of their own sick, FFS. Please educate yourself.

Technically that is how alcoholics start - night cap for sleep, then regular night cap, 2 night caps... Not all alcoholics are binging down the pub or roaring drunk. Often alcoholics who drink every evening, especially spirits never get drunk because they are use it and can function fully without anyone noticing they have been drinking.

2 or more glasses every night would be considered the start of an issue. It's because it is habit forming. Also if you did this up until you found out you were pregnant (say you found out late) it could have issues for the baby. So i would say they are making a judgement call to get this looked at before it's an issue (most people who have a few in the evening don't realise that it's really is the beginning of a problem and see it as just a nice thing to do but your liver will be taking a hit) they will definitely be recommending you don't go back to that habit.

I'm speaking as someone who knows alcoholics and also had a minor issue with regular drinking. I'm not judging - just saying where, in my experience, they are coming from.

@Monday26July

I am an alcoholic - I attend AA - I'm quite well educated thanks

@bemusedmoose

Technically that is how alcoholics start - night cap for sleep, then regular night cap, 2 night caps... Not all alcoholics are binging down the pub or roaring drunk. Often alcoholics who drink every evening, especially spirits never get drunk because they are use it and can function fully without anyone noticing they have been drinking.

2 or more glasses every night would be considered the start of an issue. It's because it is habit forming. Also if you did this up until you found out you were pregnant (say you found out late) it could have issues for the baby. So i would say they are making a judgement call to get this looked at before it's an issue (most people who have a few in the evening don't realise that it's really is the beginning of a problem and see it as just a nice thing to do but your liver will be taking a hit) they will definitely be recommending you don't go back to that habit.

What do you know about "how alcoholics start". I have known a few in my life and none started with a night cap for sleep. Regardless, OP doesn't drink at the moment so your views on what does and doesn't lead to alcoholism is completely irrelevant.

[quote doris9034]@Monday26July

I am an alcoholic - I attend AA - I'm quite well educated thanks[/quote]
Clearly you’re not. AA is great when it works but they’re clearly spreading misinformation or you’ve misunderstood. Maybe next time you’re at a meeting you could listen to the other attendees who were functioning alcoholics and drank a certain amount each night and didn’t find it impossible to stop each time.

Not going to willy wave my own credentials but you’re wrong.

@Monday26July

Alcoholism is an addiction, an addiction is not knowing when to stop!

I like chocolate, cake, food...I know when to stop but I eat them all excessively. Does that make me a chocoholic/cakeoholic/foodoholic? No!

Don’t judge everybody by your pretentious opinions and try to make out that they are wrong, just because they don’t happen to agree with you

Maybe next time you’re at a meeting you could listen to the other attendees who were functioning alcoholics and drank a certain amount each night and didn’t find it impossible to stop each time

You won’t find many alcoholics attending AA meetings like that. @doris9034 is right, most who have reached the point of reaching out to AA drank until there was no more alcohol left or they passed out.

I’m not engaging with this any more, it’s pointless. I really wasn’t judging, just trying to help put things in perspective from my own experience and those of you who are criticising me as judgmental are not reading my posts properly. I’ve stated facts, not ‘assertions’ and it doesn’t take much googling on responsible websites to back up everything I’ve said. Problem drinking starts small and builds over time. Believe it or don’t. I’m done.

@pam290358 I don’t think you are judging anyone, and you have used experience, however, it’s not always down to just drinking why someone’s liver shows signs of deterioration. I’m sorry it happened to you, and lucky you became aware and have done something to make it better. The OP has one/two not just every night.

You haven’t been judgemental, but you are coming across as ‘having to be right’ just ‘because I have experience’ (I’m not accurately paraphrasing here but you get the gist) go a few posts back...there’s quite an interesting and lengthy post from a non uk based doctor, who explains what I’m trying to say much better.

Op I have 3 kids. I gave up drinking completely when pregnant, no problems at all but I have a gin most nights before bed. I don't think I have a problem.