Treated like an alcoholic by midwife?

[MyMabel]

Anyone else been in this situation?

Ok our telephone consultation appointment I was asked how much I drink prior to finding out I was pregnant - I said (honestly) I had about one or two gins every night, the occasion glass or two of wine instead. Couldn’t tell them in units as I have no idea.

I was never drunk, never drank until DP was home as we have a toddler DD so wanted to make sure if anything happened one of us can drive, plus I wouldn’t drink while solely responsible for her. - again, never drunk or even dizzy. Just a glass or two while watching telly before bed. I suppose with COVID and all I was just bored?

Anyway, was asked if I drank since finding out- said no, because I haven’t.

Come to my face to face appointment; Midwife explains that due to my alcohol intake before being pregnant I’ve been referred to speak to someone. I was in a bit of shock to ask questions and just said ok. But after I left I felt mortally embarrassed and now a bit worried they think I’ve got a drinking problem?!

Maybe I’m not BU in the sense that they could perhaps help someone who struggled with alcohol by doing this routinely.. but AIBU to think I really don’t need to speak to someone regarding what I drank in the evenings?

Did I really drink THAT much too much? I get it was too much and probably not healthy for my body.. but I don’t think it’s that bad?!

for all the mw knows she is drinking while pregnant. As a nursery practitioner if a pregnant mum of one of my kids reported that level of drinking to me I’d have no choice but to let social services know. The mw is just doing what she believes is right by the child.

Just noticed you said you would let social services know if a mother reported to you that she had a gin every evening. You are utterly clueless!!

Can we just take a breath and remember that the NHS is a service. They provide recommendations. The assumption that women lie is everything that is wrong with the way the NHS view their customers. A pregnant woman is not ill… she is not a patient, she is a customer and has a more vested interest in the health of her baby than any other person in the Health SERVICE that provide her with the required infrastructure to take accountability for her child. The safeguards are in place when someone is not able to take accountability and the OP does not fit into that bracket by any stretch.

“for all the mw knows she is drinking while pregnant. As a nursery practitioner if a pregnant mum of one of my kids reported that level of drinking to me I’d have no choice but to let social services know. The mw is just doing what she believes is right by the child.“

Except the MW has been told by the op that she is not drinking while pregnant. And as for you ringing social services…. Beggars belief. And please don’t insult our intelligence by saying that’s what’s required of you. You have taken a leap that the op is lying, you know better and have more knowledge of her activity than she does. The arrogance of this is utterly astounding.

@pcl09

Can we just take a breath and remember that the NHS is a service. They provide recommendations. The assumption that women lie is everything that is wrong with the way the NHS view their customers. A pregnant woman is not ill… she is not a patient, she is a customer and has a more vested interest in the health of her baby than any other person in the Health SERVICE that provide her with the required infrastructure to take accountability for her child. The safeguards are in place when someone is not able to take accountability and the OP does not fit into that bracket by any stretch.

What an odd view.

'It is probably a situation where they need to refer anyone who is drinking above the recommended unit allowance'

It is, they have a system where they ask your weekly unit intake and i can't remember the parameters but it's something like if it's 0-10 no action is taken, 10-20 units the midwife has a discussion with you about alcohol in pregnancy, 20+ you're referred like the OP. It's all a load of bollocks really, anyone who's drinking a bucket of vodka every night isn't likely to admit it to a midwife and anyone who has a glass or two of wine a few nights a week and hasn't got the sense to lie about it but wouldn't have drunk in pregnancy are the ones who end up being referred for support.

@BastardMonkfish

'It is probably a situation where they need to refer anyone who is drinking above the recommended unit allowance'

It is, they have a system where they ask your weekly unit intake and i can't remember the parameters but it's something like if it's 0-10 no action is taken, 10-20 units the midwife has a discussion with you about alcohol in pregnancy, 20+ you're referred like the OP. It's all a load of bollocks really, anyone who's drinking a bucket of vodka every night isn't likely to admit it to a midwife and anyone who has a glass or two of wine a few nights a week and hasn't got the sense to lie about it but wouldn't have drunk in pregnancy are the ones who end up being referred for support.

Exactly. Women drinking during pregnancy aren't likely to admit it and will probably say they didn't drink before too. Deciding who is or isn't drinking alcohol during pregnancy based on what they admit to drinking before pregnancy is ridiculous.

I think the MW was correct to refer. Daily drinking isn’t healthy for the body and adds up to quite a few units.

pcl09
Can we just take a breath and remember that the NHS is a service. They provide recommendations. The assumption that women lie is everything that is wrong with the way the NHS view their customers. A pregnant woman is not ill… she is not a patient, she is a customer and has a more vested interest in the health of her baby than any other person in the Health SERVICE that provide her with the required infrastructure to take accountability for her child. The safeguards are in place when someone is not able to take accountability and the OP does not fit into that bracket by any stretch.

“What an odd view.”

It’s a non UK view. Having operated in another country for a long time where the health service catered for the needs of its customers, it was a much more pleasant and less risky experience than dealing with the NHS.

This time last year we was all going to die and if the lady had a glass or two of gin so what . If she was an alcoholic she wouldn’t of been able to stop drinking . Just remember 40 years ago alcohol was prescribed to pregnant women , bottle of stout for your iron. Congratulations on the baby .

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I think the MW was correct to refer. Daily drinking isn’t healthy for the body and adds up to quite a few units.

And if OP was currently daily drinking the MW might have been right to refer...but she's drinking nothing, so you are wrong.

I love the way this thread has diversified away from the facts. Put aside the pregnancy issue for a minute and consider the facts that apply to us all.

Fact. The recommended levels of alcohol consumption are just that - recommendations. There actually is no ‘safe’ level of drinking and the recommendations are based on best evidence of minimal damage.

Fact. If you are drinking at home you are more likely to consume more units of alcohol than if you were in a bar or pub, where it is measured.

Fact. You don’t need to be falling down drunk to be at risk from alcohol consumption. It only takes a relatively small amount of alcohol consumed regularly over a period of time, to start off the process of liver damage.

Low level alcohol consumption is a problem and the UK doesn’t do enough to tackle it. You may think that the health professionals are OTT in how they view it, but there is a case to be made for early referral to stop more serious problems further down the road.

OP: I had one or two G + Ts a night pre pregnancy
MN:

It will just be an automatic referral if you are either above a certain number of units or a certain number of days per week.

@pam290358

Which would all be relevant if the Op we’re drinking during pregnancy… which she isn’t.

Fact. The NHS does not have the right to assume the op is being untruthful. There is no basis for referring a mother who is not drinking for alcohol counselling.

If it were an offer: “I have this support available if you feel you need it, I appreciate you are not drinking right now but we could offer this up if you’d find it helpful” vs “I have followed the counter on the spreadsheet and am overruling your personal judgement and expecting you to speak to someone else about something you don’t consider to be a problem”, it’s a very different conversation.

Were not we’re

@Carboncheque

@pam290358

I love the way this thread has diversified away from the facts. Put aside the pregnancy issue for a minute and consider the facts that apply to us all.

Fact. The recommended levels of alcohol consumption are just that - recommendations. There actually is no ‘safe’ level of drinking and the recommendations are based on best evidence of minimal damage.

Fact. If you are drinking at home you are more likely to consume more units of alcohol than if you were in a bar or pub, where it is measured.

Fact. You don’t need to be falling down drunk to be at risk from alcohol consumption. It only takes a relatively small amount of alcohol consumed regularly over a period of time, to start off the process of liver damage.

Low level alcohol consumption is a problem and the UK doesn’t do enough to tackle it. You may think that the health professionals are OTT in how they view it, but there is a case to be made for early referral to stop more serious problems further down the road.

There isn't much evidence of what causes minimal damage though is there? It's not a "fact" that people who consume alcohol at home drink more those who go to pubs at all. It will vary from person. It's not a fact that relatively small amounts of alcohol consumed regularly will cause liver damage. It's very difficult to know how much alcohol those who have liver damage have actually consumed. Many report no alcohol at all and approx 50% of liver disease is thought not related to alcohol. Regardless OP is not drinking at the moment so not relevant.

@pam290358

I love the way this thread has diversified away from the facts. Put aside the pregnancy issue for a minute and consider the facts that apply to us all.

Fact. The recommended levels of alcohol consumption are just that - recommendations. There actually is no ‘safe’ level of drinking and the recommendations are based on best evidence of minimal damage.

Fact. If you are drinking at home you are more likely to consume more units of alcohol than if you were in a bar or pub, where it is measured.

Fact. You don’t need to be falling down drunk to be at risk from alcohol consumption. It only takes a relatively small amount of alcohol consumed regularly over a period of time, to start off the process of liver damage.

Low level alcohol consumption is a problem and the UK doesn’t do enough to tackle it. You may think that the health professionals are OTT in how they view it, but there is a case to be made for early referral to stop more serious problems further down the road.

Assertions don't become facts by the magic of putting the word "fact" in front of them!

A person is "defined" as an alcoholic not by how much they drink, what they drink or how often, but by the fact that when they do drink they are unable to stop.

Lots of alcoholics and pregnancy drinkers on this thread today, judgint by the posts.

I did say I was putting the pregnancy issue aside for a moment to look at alcohol consumption in general. I’m aware that 50% of liver damage is not alcohol related, but that’s really not relevant since the thread deals with alcohol consumption. Liver function testing can differentiate between the two by looking at the GGT results, which indicate alcohol consumption, and fatty liver, or Steatosis is almost always caused by alcohol, it being the first stage of alcoholic liver disease. In my own case a relatively small amount of alcohol was all it took over several months to set me on the road to liver damage, and according to my GP at the time, this isn’t uncommon. In her experience many of her patients are surprised by a diagnosis of liver damage because they consider themselves moderate drinkers and don’t report any symptoms - a lot of the time the liver problems show up in tests done for different reasons. As I said, you don’t need to be a raging alcoholic to be susceptible. Several studies have been done into the change in drinking habits during the pandemic and the results of some of them are concerning.

@Changechangychange

If you aren’t using a measure, you are probably pouring doubles (most people do). So yep, that would be over the recommended amount.

But you’ve stopped now, so no harm done.

We bought a measure in lockdown for this exact reason! I also measured how much wine our glasses held in a standard pour and it was only 100mls! So that cheered me up immensely and now I can have 3 “glasses” and it’s only the same as 2 restaurant glasses

@Ozanj. Yep. Maybe not necessarily alcoholics, but certainly some who recognise what we’re talking about in themselves and will say anything to refute the information given, because to accept it means they have to do something about it.

@Carboncheque

OP: I had one or two G + Ts a night pre pregnancy MN:

😂😂😂

I think the lesson learned is (if you are confident your alcohol consumption isn’t an addiction or too much of a habit) tell your MW that you only drink one flute of champagne on special occasions and then leave it at that.