Treated like an alcoholic by midwife?

[MyMabel]

Anyone else been in this situation?

Ok our telephone consultation appointment I was asked how much I drink prior to finding out I was pregnant - I said (honestly) I had about one or two gins every night, the occasion glass or two of wine instead. Couldn’t tell them in units as I have no idea.

I was never drunk, never drank until DP was home as we have a toddler DD so wanted to make sure if anything happened one of us can drive, plus I wouldn’t drink while solely responsible for her. - again, never drunk or even dizzy. Just a glass or two while watching telly before bed. I suppose with COVID and all I was just bored?

Anyway, was asked if I drank since finding out- said no, because I haven’t.

Come to my face to face appointment; Midwife explains that due to my alcohol intake before being pregnant I’ve been referred to speak to someone. I was in a bit of shock to ask questions and just said ok. But after I left I felt mortally embarrassed and now a bit worried they think I’ve got a drinking problem?!

Maybe I’m not BU in the sense that they could perhaps help someone who struggled with alcohol by doing this routinely.. but AIBU to think I really don’t need to speak to someone regarding what I drank in the evenings?

Did I really drink THAT much too much? I get it was too much and probably not healthy for my body.. but I don’t think it’s that bad?!

Sorry but I think anyone drinking a substantial amount of alcohol every day has got a drinking problem - she was right to focus on this I'm afraid

@felulageller
I drank a lot in the weeks running up to my wedding especially on my hen night. I found out on the eve of my wedding I was pregnant and my son is fine. Stop scaremongering

Your mistake was not just saying ‘oh, about... ... 14 units a week?’ like all us other alcoholics

I absolutely hate that anyone on this thread who says how much (small amount) they drink, is assumed to be lying. Anyone who drank before pregnancy but then stopped, is lying about having stopped.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

My mum is an alcoholic. I know only too well what alcohol dependency is about.
As I said earlier, I drink a small glass of wine with my evening meal most nights (obviously not when it's a meal that wine doesn't go with)
But no, that apparently can't be possible. My unit measurement is a lie or unreliable. I should need to drink every night (I don't need to. I just like to have wine with my dinner).

With my parental background I know damn well how to measure a unit, and if I thought for a moment that I needed rather than wanted a glass of wine, I'd be on it.

'When people are asked how much they drink, it should be doubled' is the new cash the cheque on this thread. And it's dismissive and puritanical.

Let this be a lesson..never tell the truth to these people. Otherwise you will end up being hassled and patronised.
2 drinks a night is 14 a week which is fine

@saraclara

I absolutely hate that anyone on this thread who says how much (small amount) they drink, is assumed to be lying. Anyone who drank before pregnancy but then stopped, is lying about having stopped.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

My mum is an alcoholic. I know only too well what alcohol dependency is about.
As I said earlier, I drink a small glass of wine with my evening meal most nights (obviously not when it's a meal that wine doesn't go with)
But no, that apparently can't be possible. My unit measurement is a lie or unreliable. I should need to drink every night (I don't need to. I just like to have wine with my dinner).

With my parental background I know damn well how to measure a unit, and if I thought for a moment that I needed rather than wanted a glass of wine, I'd be on it.

'When people are asked how much they drink, it should be doubled' is the new cash the cheque on this thread. And it's dismissive and puritanical.

FFS. I can't make a post without a typo these days.

"I shouldN'T need to drink every night..."

One gin could be a quart never mind half a pint

Can we all agree that a quart of gin a night is too much?

@CrankyFrankie

Your mistake was not just saying ‘oh, about... ... 14 units a week?’ like all us other alcoholics

Be very careful with this.

"About 14 units"?

So it sounds like some weeks you might have drunk 15. The social services crisis team will have your kids in care within the hour, you'll be sent to have your stomach pumped, followed by reeducation a talk with an advisor (and ostracised by the naice ladies of Mumsnet)

@mnmumak

Read the OP properly. OP hasn't drunk alcohol while pregnant so there is no danger of FAS so what has it got to do with the midwife?

@Belladonna12

A proportion of women who were daily drinkers before pregnancy will struggle to stop, which may mean support is required to ensure the wellbeing of baby and help mum to manage her drinking. Midwife isn’t able to predict the future or know whether OP is being entirely truthful so she’s referring on for support in the knowledge that some women who meet the referral threshold will need it. They don’t just make this stuff up on the spot, daily drinking prior to conception is a risk factor for continued alcohol use during pregnancy which may lead to FAS.

People who are heavy drinkers may struggle to stop but OP drinks within or only a bit over the recommended limits which means she is a pretty moderate drinker. Why would someone who says that they normally drink when not pregnant be more likely to be lie about drinking during pregnancy. It could easily be the other way around. Many alcoholics will say that they hardly touch a drop of alcohol when asked y a health care professional so by your logic the midwife should refer everyone who says they hardly drink at all.

@MyMabel

I’m a midwife. These questions have a scoring system based on how many units you drank. This determines how much of a risk it is of you restarting drinking in pregnancy. The midwife won’t have had any option but to refer you if you scored above the cut off, it’s not their decision.

Two glasses of gin EVERY night is above the norm. Doesn't mean you are a falling-down drunk, or even an alcoholic. It does mean that you are above their set amount, and would automatically be slated to speak with someone.

I don’t think there’s any question here that the OP has stopped drinking now she knows she’s pregnant, but the issue is that she told the midwife she drinks a couple of gin and tonics EVERY night. That’s a red flag as, despite what some are saying on here, it does suggest some level of dependence. It therefore speaks to whether she can sustain abstinence throughout the pregnancy and it will certainly warrant a referral under NHS scoring systems.

I think some posters are assuming you have to be falling down drunk every night to be at risk of alcohol related illness. You don’t - and if you drink at home, you are almost certainly drinking more because unless you invest in a jigger measure, your own drinks will be larger than a pub measure, and for every jigger it’s a unit of alcohol. After my bereavement it only took me six months of two of my own measures of gin and tonic most evenings to end up with fatty liver. If I had carried on, by now, a couple of years later, I’d probably be on the way to irreversible damage. Not suggesting that we don’t drink at all, just that it’s easy to exceed the recommended limits without realising it. And 14 units is not a ‘safe’ level. It’s also not a target.

if I thought for a moment that I needed rather than wanted a glass of wine, I'd be on it.

This is a good point. A poster up thread mentioned looking forward to a couple of glasses of wine at the end of the day, as I looked forward to my gin and tonic. If anyone suspects they are developing a problem, ask yourself if you are really just fancying a glass of something, or do you ‘need’ it as a comfort of some kind. Even if alcohol consumption is moderate, if you find that you can’t wait for that time to come around, it may be time to look at whether you’ve formed a habit which could store up future problems.

@MouseholeCat

You absolutely don't need to take the referral, but I do think it's worth reflecting on the fact that your alcohol consumption met certain risk criteria.

That doesn't mean that you are an alcoholic by any means, but it can mean that you are more vulnerable to future alcohol health-related concerns or alcohol dependency.

I'm one of those maligned posters who thinks that alcohol dependency and problematic drinking is normalised in the UK, and I do think nightly (or close to nightly) drinking is not normal.

I agree.

Your starting point needs to be working how much you actually drink. You can probably work it out quite easily and estimate the weekly units. This is something you will likely be asked again

I think a lot of it is how you grew up. You are either a drinking or a non-drinking family. I come from a drinking family, and was first given watered down wine with dinner when I was about 10, a sherry on a Sunday at 12, and so on. It was quite normal to have a drink when you got come from work and then a couple of glasses of wine with dinner. Whether it's right or not, your body does get used to it.

@SaltySheepdog. I agree with you, but I think the fact that OP was drinking at home is the problem - it’s harder to keep track of the actual units. After my diagnosis I went out and bought a pub measure to try to work out how I’d got myself into that position because I really didn’t think I was drinking that much - two drinks max per day. I was really shocked at the difference between the jigger measure equalling one unit of alcohol, and what I was estimating as a large gin. I was drinking between four and six units a day without realising it, and more than doubling the recommended level. I also agree with the poster up thread who said that alcohol dependency and problematic drinking tends to be normalised in this country - someone upthread mentioned that in European countries a glass of wine is drunk every day with a meal, but I don’t think that can be held up as a positive example without knowing the statistics on how alcohol affects health in those countries.

I think my main point is that it’s easier than you think to damage your health through alcohol, and this may be why some are at odds with what healthcare professionals consider excessive. They are more aware of the effects of alcohol on the body and the red flag signals. I know several people who don’t consider themselves to be excessive drinkers, who use the recommended levels as ‘targets’. Healthcare professionals will tell you that there is no ‘safe’ level of drinking, and that the recommended levels are just that, recommendations, beyond which it’s likely to cause damage. This is not just because of the effects of the alcohol itself, but the fact that it’s habit forming and long term regular drinking will add up to problems in later life.

@PurpleVerbena. Your body may get used to it, but at that level, sooner or later the cumulative effects will inevitably cause health problems. I guess it’s down to knowing the facts and personal choice.

Yeah, I mean I had an alcoholic mother and this was pretty much her level.
Dizzy, stumbling about, slurring words... Not how you define alcoholism.
Functioning alcoholics often never realise that they have a problem.
You are drinking a lot. I'm sorry but, if you can't identify the units, that's a lot. We have a drinking culture here and I'll probably be the rare exception who tells you the truth. I don't know anyone else who has had a referral for this. In a culture where you get a giggle of you say you think you shouldn't have got drunk last Saturday that's actually quite serious.
Try giving up when you aren't knocked up and see how it goes.

@Blue4YOU

I wish the midwife and doctors had been so concerned about my first DD not moving in utero and subsequently dying.., oh but wait! I wasn’t drinking so nothing they could do. Op - don’t further engage if you want to stay sane

@Bertiebiscuit

Sorry but I think anyone drinking a substantial amount of alcohol every day has got a drinking problem - she was right to focus on this I'm afraid

This comment is everything that is wrong with the world (and yes I’m being dramatic!) one or two drinks is NOT a substantial amount. One or two Bottles per night certainly is substantial, but that’s not what this is!

What’s the problem.

Is alcohol good for us? No.

Then stop.

Sounds to me many can’t stop.
I read hear that “I’m not dependent. I just look forward to my alcohol”
It’s doing you no good. Stop

[quote Madwife123]@MyMabel

I’m a midwife. These questions have a scoring system based on how many units you drank. This determines how much of a risk it is of you restarting drinking in pregnancy. The midwife won’t have had any option but to refer you if you scored above the cut off, it’s not their decision.[/quote]
The midwife gave the score though without asking for more detail. She shouldn't have given a high score without checking how often OP drinks two rather than one glass and whether she measure the shot.

@Dnaltocs

What’s the problem. Is alcohol good for us? No. Then stop. Sounds to me many can’t stop. I read hear that “I’m not dependent. I just look forward to my alcohol” It’s doing you no good. Stop

You could say the same thing about chocolate or food high in saturated fat though. I bet most of the posters clutching their pearls about alcohol probably have more of that than they should for optimum health. There seems to be an inability to understand that some people enjoy a glass of an alcoholic drink in the same way as others enjoy chocolate. It doesn't mean that they are a raving alcoholic who can't stop when pregnant.

The constant assertion that women can't measure their alcoholic drink and/or lie about it also ridiculous. And if they do lie why should it be the person that admits to having a drink. It may be the person who says that they don't drink at all that is lying.
And if people think women do lie/undestimate does it not occur to them that those who actually do suffer alcohol related disease probably lied about how much they drink as well? Mother of children with FAS may have drunk much more than they admitted to and yet people seem to take that as gospel. Very selective.