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Original poster

Gun control

178 replies

Pixxie7 · 13/08/2021 22:26

Following the awful killing last night I am struggling to find why apart from a very few professions anyone in this country needs a gun license.

OP posts:
disconnecteddrifter · 14/08/2021 07:16

Posting for traffic. We are on our way to Glasgow and have 4 kids with us. 2 are vegetarian but don't eat veggie burgers etc. Anyone recommend a good place for dinner?
Thank you

Macncheeseballs · 14/08/2021 07:18

Aorh- I presume they shit safely because they have guns to protect them whilst on the job

Bunnycat101 · 14/08/2021 07:18

I was quite shocked he was given it back. I’d expect a no tolerance approach to licensing. I was also quite surprised at a 5 year renewal,

He is not an individual who should have ever had a gun so if he was able to get one legitimately then in my view the law is currently too lax.

Macncheeseballs · 14/08/2021 07:20

Disconnected drifter - how apt the name, unless you're shooting dinner, you're on the wrong thread 😉

newnortherner111 · 14/08/2021 07:23

I agree, certainly in urban areas. I can appreciate a need or at least a good use in farming. It is not the only thing we should do to stop gun deaths and we should recognise that no gun law change will take all guns away, but could prevent some deaths.

TooManyAnimals94 · 14/08/2021 10:46

I honestly don't understand the mindset of punishing law abiding people when an individual does something illegal.
There needs to be an investigation into why this person had his licence and gun given back to him after it was revoked. I would argue that whoever made that decision is at fault here, not the gun laws themselves.
I know a lot of people who shoot for work and pleasure (farmers, hunt staff, husband, gamekeepers, FIL and friends). They are the most conscientious people about gun rules because they understand gun safety and they don't want to jeopardise their own licences.
For example, DH keeps shotguns in the house in a safe that I do not have the combination for because I don't have my own license so there is no way that I could access those guns without supervision.
He is in the process of getting his firearms licence because he enjoys rifle shooting (targets at a club) but its a very long process that involves being a member of a registered club, character references and a statement from a doctor. Why should his perfectly safe hobby be made illegal?
As others have pointed out, should chefs have to obtain licences to buy sharp knives?
Awful tragedy but so few gun crimes are committed by people who legally own guns.

Ticketchancer · 14/08/2021 10:52

@TooManyAnimals94

I honestly don't understand the mindset of punishing law abiding people when an individual does something illegal. There needs to be an investigation into why this person had his licence and gun given back to him after it was revoked. I would argue that whoever made that decision is at fault here, not the gun laws themselves. I know a lot of people who shoot for work and pleasure (farmers, hunt staff, husband, gamekeepers, FIL and friends). They are the most conscientious people about gun rules because they understand gun safety and they don't want to jeopardise their own licences. For example, DH keeps shotguns in the house in a safe that I do not have the combination for because I don't have my own license so there is no way that I could access those guns without supervision. He is in the process of getting his firearms licence because he enjoys rifle shooting (targets at a club) but its a very long process that involves being a member of a registered club, character references and a statement from a doctor. Why should his perfectly safe hobby be made illegal? As others have pointed out, should chefs have to obtain licences to buy sharp knives? Awful tragedy but so few gun crimes are committed by people who legally own guns.
Guns shouldn’t be a form of fun - knives is a pointless comparison as without knives we’d have problems cutting things, a gun isn’t a need. You are comparing apples and oranges. How do you know your husband may not have a psychotic episode and turn a gun on you?!
Elys3 · 14/08/2021 10:55

There is a wider question here. Why do the police not monitor the internet use more closely of those involved with the incel movement and those who have gun licenses?

cariadlet · 14/08/2021 10:55

Personally, I find shooting animals (including birds) for pleasure abhorrent and would like to ban it but target shooting seems a great sport.

I agree that most gun owners are very responsible and most crimes are carried out using illegally held weapons.

We have some of the strictest gun laws in the world. That's something to be proud of. The laws don't need tightening up still further. But in this case, the law was clearly not applied properly. He should never have had his licence restored.

Ticketchancer · 14/08/2021 11:00

@Elys3

There is a wider question here. Why do the police not monitor the internet use more closely of those involved with the incel movement and those who have gun licenses?
Under staffed, under resourced, under funded- 1001 other crimes to handle
cariadlet · 14/08/2021 11:00

@Elys3

There is a wider question here. Why do the police not monitor the internet use more closely of those involved with the incel movement and those who have gun licenses?

The. Police were so focused on Islamic extremists that they were slow to realise the danger of right wing extremism. That's now a major focus of Prevent but they don't seem to be paying nearly enough attention to the Incel movement.

Mamamia7962 · 14/08/2021 11:05

Ticketchancer - How do you know that your husband won't have a psychotic episode and stab you with a knife?

TooManyAnimals94 · 14/08/2021 11:06

@Ticketchancer who are you to decide which hobbies people can enjoy? You are literally the fun police 😂

Would you say the same thing if my husband played golf or cricket? Oh aren't you terrified he will have a personality transplant and smash you over the head with a golf club? Errrmmm no.

lljkk · 14/08/2021 11:07

Had the killer posted lots of angry things or violence supporting statements on his public social media?

buffyajp · 14/08/2021 11:07

@LEMtheoriginal

Nobody should be shooting another living creature for pleasure. Environmental control, fine, preserving crops, fine. But i cannot abide anyone who does this for "sport" even under the guise of control.

People should not have guns other than farmers and other necessary peeps that im too tired to think of.

How many people are killed or injured in shooting accidents, using guns that don't need to be used?

Agreed
Ticketchancer · 14/08/2021 11:10

@Mamamia7962

Ticketchancer - How do you know that your husband won't have a psychotic episode and stab you with a knife?
I don’t but I’ll take my chance with a knife over a gun
Ticketchancer · 14/08/2021 11:11

[quote TooManyAnimals94]@Ticketchancer who are you to decide which hobbies people can enjoy? You are literally the fun police 😂

Would you say the same thing if my husband played golf or cricket? Oh aren't you terrified he will have a personality transplant and smash you over the head with a golf club? Errrmmm no.[/quote]
Pretty sick to take pleasure in killing

cariadlet · 14/08/2021 11:11

@lljkk

Had the killer posted lots of angry things or violence supporting statements on his public social media?
Yes. You might find the incel and terrorism thread interesting.
buffyajp · 14/08/2021 11:18

@TooManyAnimals94

I honestly don't understand the mindset of punishing law abiding people when an individual does something illegal. There needs to be an investigation into why this person had his licence and gun given back to him after it was revoked. I would argue that whoever made that decision is at fault here, not the gun laws themselves. I know a lot of people who shoot for work and pleasure (farmers, hunt staff, husband, gamekeepers, FIL and friends). They are the most conscientious people about gun rules because they understand gun safety and they don't want to jeopardise their own licences. For example, DH keeps shotguns in the house in a safe that I do not have the combination for because I don't have my own license so there is no way that I could access those guns without supervision. He is in the process of getting his firearms licence because he enjoys rifle shooting (targets at a club) but its a very long process that involves being a member of a registered club, character references and a statement from a doctor. Why should his perfectly safe hobby be made illegal? As others have pointed out, should chefs have to obtain licences to buy sharp knives? Awful tragedy but so few gun crimes are committed by people who legally own guns.
You don’t understand how people can strongly dislike guns and want them banned when their express purpose for creation was to kill? By all means disagree with us but personally I find your confusion about our point of view far more strange.
SidSparrow · 14/08/2021 11:28

@Ticketchancer I fully agree!

Why is it when these awful things happen society looks to blame the weapon? I'd be looking at whoever pulled the trigger and how they got that way, and why society is producing these very dangerous men. That's what needs fixing, not putting rules on people who follow the rules. Such a basic and juvenille argument from people who pluck thoughts from thin air.

SidSparrow · 14/08/2021 11:30

@Ticketchancer Sorry not you, I don't agree with you. I meant @TooManyAnimals94 I meant you!! I totally agree with you!

Haha sorry folks, trying to Mum and type Confused

lljkk · 14/08/2021 11:30

I won't address whether Incel movement is terrorism, happy to let others debate that (doubt I care what the outcome is). I will pay attention to the inquiry findings, esp. how he got the license back.

wrt Davison, he described his mum how many MNers might describe parents or ILs or other relatives (vile, disgusting, abusive, can't stand her, doesn't take responsibility).

Short of jumping to conclusion that Incel = violent extremism, or that anyone who has an interest in guns secretly wants violence, I can't see from summary here that he said anything that doesn't sound like what anyone on MN, who feels they were abused by their relatives, might end up writing. With consequential depression, "defeated by life" etc.

TooManyAnimals94 · 14/08/2021 11:33

@Ticketchancer I'm not going to get into pheasant shoots etc because whilst I have friends that make a living from it I don't personally agree with it but I have to say it's not something I lose sleep over. My friends and family who shoot for pleasure shoot clays or paper targets. Not really any different to enjoying archery or darts (neither of which you need licences for despite using equipment that could injure or kill). So please stop with your very ignorant assumptions of other people's lifestyle choices.
@buffyajp I don't understand it because guns have a place in the modern world and we have rules in place to keep people safe from them. Someone needs to lose their job for giving a licence to a man convicted of assault and with MH issues. The police did not use the law correctly, there is not a problem with the law itself.

Letsbekindplease · 14/08/2021 11:34

As someone who lives near Dunblane this has sent shock waves through the community. Sickening.

OhRene · 14/08/2021 11:45

How often do we have mass shootings in the UK? Our gun control is good but nothing is absolutely fool proof. My stepdad owns guns and the rules are so strict that even mum who lives with his isn't allowed to know where the gun safe keys are.

The terrorist (and he was a terrorist, with his ranting videos on YouTube about women being the enemy because no one would sleep with him) n Plymouth shouldn't have got his gun license but obviously the police hadn't been aware of his crazy videos. If just one person who knew him had told the authorities then the gun he used would have been scrap metal.