The Incel movement is a terrorist ideology.

[flashbac]

It's worrying that it isn't seen as such.

@Blossomtoes Have you RTFT? Pp have posted detailed definitions of terrorism (taken from reliable documents like the Prevent strategy), details to documentaries and podcasts about the incel movement and descriptions of their structure and aims. Have you seen the shooter's YouTube subscriptions?

Incels are clearly terrorists.

The political aim is to regain a position of power over women and to have a culture whereby women are submissive, compliant and fearful of men.

Reposting Frangipani’s explanation because it makes the political aims clear, for those who think it isn’t political.

Reggie Yates did a documentary called Men At War a few years ago, the trailer for it is linked below and it's about that time I started learning about Incels

Even from that trailer you can see that one of the key successful strategies of the Incel movement is to redefine the narrative so that men are the victims: victims of witch hunts, rape accusations and cancelling. “anything a woman wants she gets”.

Yet witch hunts were originally about killing women and today they are about cancelling women who are gender-critical.

I often hear Mumsnet being described as a hotbed of man-hatred yet where is our Jake Davidson or Elliot Rodger?

It’s the twisting of the narrative that is so scary because once these men see themselves as victims of women they will feel justified in lashing out against them.

I have now watched the bbc3 programme on the incels.

Very interesting.

Also seeing some of the young me explaining how they got dragged into their ideology but came out the other side I'm glad to see prevent now include it.

One of the young men in there was terrifying. He got absolute glee out of cat fishing woman and felt they deserved it and completely idolised Elliot Rodger.

Those extremist incels are completely in the ideology. Extremist views and ideologies that result in terror is the sheer definition of terrorism.

If a Muslim terrorist had MH problems no one would say it wasn't terrorism - it was mental health.

Yes, those with MH problems are more at risk of being radicalised.

But having MH problems doesn't make you a terrorist or a risk. It's the resulting radicalisation bourne from those MH problems that make you a terrorist.

Yes @cariadlet, I have RTFT. I disagree, if that’s all right with you.

This massacre doesn’t fit any definition of terrorism I’ve seen or understood, here or anywhere else.

What are the political aims of the incel movement? Explain them to me.

Just had a lightbulb. IMO every time someone says it’s something other than terrorism, they are reinforcing the incel view of men (this man) as victims, aren’t they?

I completely agree. What's terrifying to me, is that the incel forums are so easily accessible. Yesterday I did a Google search out of interest, went on the first link and one of the top posts on there was a man saying that his mother was a whore and that she had denied him breast milk as a child, and that his sister was a whore. The comments were encouraging him to rape his sister in "every hole" to teach her a lesson. This wasn't on the dark Web or anything like that, just Google. They are a terrifying community that are allowed to discuss so openly actual violence against the women in their lives. If incel was taken more seriously, as a terrorist ideology/group, then perhaps these websites would be closed down.

Not saying they are wrong, but if you blame the mental health crisis for eg, he’s just a poor man who should have been helped before his health spiralled this far.

That - intended or not - reinforces the “men are victims” shtick

@Blossomtoes

Yes *@cariadlet*, I have RTFT. I disagree, if that’s all right with you.

This massacre doesn’t fit any definition of terrorism I’ve seen or understood, here or anywhere else.

What are the political aims of the incel movement? Explain them to me.

CPS definition of terrorism: Terrorism is the use or threat of action, both in and outside of the UK, designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

It can be an ideological cause, not necessarily political. I think that's what some are suggesting.

(However, it would need to be designed to intimidate the public. I don't think there's any evidence of that motive.)

@Moonmelodies

What would they prefer the government policy to be?

Some members of this group would like to see all men have a government-mandated girlfriend, should they not be able to attract one for themselves...

That aside, I don’t know that framing them as terrorists would be helpful- I’m sure they’d love the notoriety/recognition.

@ThisIsSimplyBeyond

Just had a lightbulb. IMO every time someone says it’s something other than terrorism, they are reinforcing the incel view of men (this man) as victims, aren’t they?

No, they’re not. These men are vile misogynistic excuses for human beings. They’re as far from being victims as it’s possible to get.

It’s calling them terrorists that’s doing them favours. That’s dignifying them with a cause to believe in and aims to achieve. Terrorism involves a degree of idealism. These cunts wouldn’t recognise idealism if they fell over it.

It’s speculative, but what do you think his motives were for shooting random people with if not to intimidate the public?

That aside, I don’t know that framing them as terrorists would be helpful- I’m sure they’d love the notoriety/recognition.

Heftier sentences for those convicted, a whole load of other offences outlawing activities such as glorifying it, shutting down of discussion forums, greater investigative powers, changing the political and policy response to it.

Were, not with.

@ThisIsSimplyBeyond

It’s speculative, but what do you think his motives were for shooting random people with if not to intimidate the public?

I don’t think he had any motives at all. His frustration reached boiling point and he went on the rampage. He hated his mum but the rest were the very definition of mindless killings.

I was saying this to my sister yesterday.

If you look up the definition of terrorism you'll see it counts.

Read Men Who Hate Women it's a very interesting (but depressing) read.

Blossom maybe that’s why we are seeing this differently - I’m having a bit of an understanding blank at the idea of mindless killing

Maybe because someone having such an extreme lack of control over their own actions is something that would be pitied?

I've been watching various Incel videos recently. There seems to be an aim to assign a 'high value' woman (Stacys) to each incel. To kill, defeat or subjugate alpha males (Chads). A push for middle of the road normal people (not particularly good looking, also not Incels, Stacys or Chads. You or me essentially) to be forced into a subservient role in restricted mating pairs.

There are organised groups, crossing nation borders online, radicalising vulnrable young men. There are forums and discussion groups.

Elliot Rodgers and Alek Minassian knew each other online via Reddit Incel groups before either went on murderous rampages.

This is terrorism, Pure and simple. With group aims, violent plans and a desire to strike fear in women. Incels are seen as a joke, but they're not - they're fucking dangerous.

@ThisIsSimplyBeyond

Blossom maybe that’s why we are seeing this differently - I’m having a bit of an understanding blank at the idea of mindless killing

Mindless killing isn’t new. The Hungerford Massacre in 1987, Dunblane in 1996, numerous shootings in the US - it happens.

@Blossomtoes

Yes *@cariadlet*, I have RTFT. I disagree, if that’s all right with you.

This massacre doesn’t fit any definition of terrorism I’ve seen or understood, here or anywhere else.

What are the political aims of the incel movement? Explain them to me.

I was going to reply but @MurielSpriggs beat me to it (with a better reply than I would have managed).

Just seen you second post @ThisIsSimplyBeyond. No, I don’t pity them at all. No right minded person would, surely? A guy who kills 19 people for no reason. Another who kills 16 kids and their teacher. This one who killed five innocent people. No pity here. I’m glad these guys finish their frenzy of violence by killing themselves.

I was going to reply but @MurielSpriggs beat me to it (with a better reply than I would have managed)

Except that didn’t answer the question. That post described the possible consequences of categorising incels as terrorists. My question was what the incels’ political aims are. Answer is they don’t have any.

I don’t mean what they have done is pitied, just that having that severe a lack of control is clearly a big problem for someone. But I don’t want to pity them, hence why I’m struggling to understand how it could be a mindless killing. Iyswim?

@ThisIsSimplyBeyond

I don’t mean what they have done is pitied, just that having that severe a lack of control is clearly a big problem for someone. But I don’t want to pity them, hence why I’m struggling to understand how it could be a mindless killing. Iyswim?

Do you remember Hungerford and Dunblane? If not, check them out. I actually find it quite comforting that I don’t understand - I’d be worried about myself if I did.