The Incel movement is a terrorist ideology.

[flashbac]

It's worrying that it isn't seen as such.

So what was the Manchester bombing again? Vengeance to kill people or terrorism?

I would say in that case it was both. Although even then the surviving brother was "only" convicted of murder, not terrorist offences.

@Lessthanaballpark

The fact that so many people on this thread don’t know that Incels form part of a very deliberate movement with a political aim: to seek vengeance on women who deny them sex and assign each man a woman through coercion, just demonstrates how successfully the media has downplayed the threat of incels and how little importance is placed on the rights of women.

100%

@Lessthanaballpark

The fact that so many people on this thread don’t know that Incels form part of a very deliberate movement with a political aim: to seek vengeance on women who deny them sex and assign each man a woman through coercion, just demonstrates how successfully the media has downplayed the threat of incels and how little importance is placed on the rights of women.

I didn't know this either @Lessthanaballpark. Truly alarming. Do you have any link, or is there a public statement of this aim?

@Lessthanaballpark

The fact that so many people on this thread don’t know that Incels form part of a very deliberate movement with a political aim: to seek vengeance on women who deny them sex and assign each man a woman through coercion, just demonstrates how successfully the media has downplayed the threat of incels and how little importance is placed on the rights of women.

I'm shocked at how many people hadn't heard of it until today and who then went on to say it's not a threat. I used to think the same until i started following the threads on Reddit

Reggie Yates did a documentary called Men At War a few years ago, the trailer for it is linked below and it's about that time I started learning about Incels and MGTOW after watching that. I also kind of think there's a bit of crossover with the mind set of some Fathers For Justice type people too. Even the title Men At War, sounds violent, war with who? And for what?

It's worth a watch for people interested in the topic. It's been over five years since I saw it so I might watch again.

I sometimes see threads on here where people describe their young adult sons being disrespectful to them and they'll be advised to tell them to leave. I saw two threads about adult sons being asked to move out in the days up to this and part of me wondered if it was one of their sons.

It seems more awareness of just how dangerous the ideology is might be a place to start on tackling this type of crime.

I'd liken them more to a cult to be honest, but a very modern one as they don't have a leader as such, just an overwhelmingly negative ideology, which can and has probably made all of their lives worse. It really is the worst kind of echo chamber, and has become a sess pit of destructive, and dangourous thinking, and as it keeps validating itself, they all just become more entrenched. I'm not sure what the answer is though, apart from education and support on an individual basis unfortunately 😞

Of course they are terrorist - a group of inadequate men with a hatred of women and blaming women for their lack progress in life . The. They shoot people.
Their aim is to cause fear.
Yes it’s terrorism - and very very scary

It is most certainly terrorism and meets the definition posted earlier. The fact that a few posters cant grasp that reflects internalised misogyny imo.

I'm not sure what the answer is though, apart from education and support on an individual basis unfortunately.

Some determined effort from social media companies in denying a viewing space would be a big help.

The views that they promote are abhorrent, although not sure what can be done. Lonely little boys in need of a cult.

@urbanbuddha : To push it under? Censorship means we cannot challenge views. They become more isolated, then extreme.

I voted YABU because I regard any incel-inspired crime as a 'hate-crime' and also a sign of mental illness.

As an aged, lifetime feminist and a natural target for many incels - a 'blanket' categorization of terrorism to those that might be influenced by the incel mindset is wrong; they're not 'organized', mostly they're individuals on their laptops, reading stuff, just like us.

And why do they kill their Mums first?

@SaharaFlower

I think their whole mindset comes from egging one another on, so breaking the bonds would help.

[quote SaharaFlower]@urbanbuddha : To push it under? Censorship means we cannot challenge views. They become more isolated, then extreme.[/quote]
What's the answer here, though?
I hear what you're saying - but you truly cannot reach entrenched views, they're too "far gone."
At least denying them platforms it might stop more vulnerable people being sucked in?

@NoNotMeNoSiree : Open communication is the answer. The vulnerable are looking for a cult; if not that, something else.

I definitely don’t think that “politics” should define what is classed as terrorism with regards to intel’s. The scope, regarding the amount of people that their hatred is directed to, goes way beyond politics.

Basically, when you break it down to the nuts and bolts of the matter, it’s men who are pissed off at EVERYTHING in their lives - which is all due to the fact that they aren’t getting sex. It’s bloody nuts.

I hadn’t particularly thought about it in this way, and I will google it (though who knows what rabbit hole I will fall down!). So, in case anyone already has any decent links/data etc - are there any statistics regarding how many women are involved with the incel movement?

Shootings like this are so rare here, can’t stop thinking about the families of all the victims. And such a young child really hits home.

What is needed is taking toxic masculinity seriously and counteracting it so that young boys don't equate self-worth with sexual success.

@Furries Although the term incel seems to have been created by a young woman, the movement is almost entirely made up of men. A negligible number of women try to join incel groups and those who do are rejected by the overwhelming majority of men who make up these groups.

It's fine and well YT taking videos don't after the event.

How about removing the Incel TV group on YT. Stop them spreading their hate , and worshipping Incel's who've already killed.
They also believe in a lit if extreme right wing policies. And are some of the most dangerous ppl loose in society.

@cariadlet - thanks for the info. I haven’t yet braved google!

I have just watched the programme mentioned upthread on iplayer. I was aware it was “a thing”. I wasn’t aware how horrific it could be.

I’m shocked. Must have had my head fully buried somewhere, as I don’t recollect hearing about ER at the time or since then.

The catfish guy, his terminology and views are bloody shocking.

And Katie’s parents. Can’t even begin to imagine how they try to get through each day. But to frame it the way her father did, re how many COULD have died - I couldn’t stop the tears.

Until yesterday, I’d heard the term incel and understood what it meant. But I kind of thought it was “terminology”. I did not realise exactly what it entailed. Eyes opened, yet again.

Incels probably have a large overlap with their views on women with the Taliban. And loads of terrorists have domestic violence in common.

@HarebrightCedarmoon

Incels probably have a large overlap with their views on women with the Taliban. And loads of terrorists have domestic violence in common.

Am sure that lots of groups out there would hate to see their views aligned with other groups. They will each stand by their own thinking, whilst categorically denying that they share similar views to other groups.

Really quite frightening how much women are a factor. Still puzzles me why on earth anyone would want to be a woman - oh, but I guess that’s because they will never feel the threat in the same way.

@Lessthanaballpark

The fact that so many people on this thread don’t know that Incels form part of a very deliberate movement with a political aim: to seek vengeance on women who deny them sex and assign each man a woman through coercion, just demonstrates how successfully the media has downplayed the threat of incels and how little importance is placed on the rights of women.

Agree.

I'm sorry to admit I had never heard of them until today. I've spent today (or yesterday even) educating myself.

@MurielSpriggs

No, not terrorism in my opinion. I don't think the use of violence is designed to intimidate the public. I don't think that there are any threats or statements to suggest that it is. From what I understand in this case it seems to be some sort of vengeance.

I agree. And they have no aim. They’re not using violence to draw attention to a cause or as a bargaining chip, they’re doing it because they can.

My definition of terrorism is guided by that old saying that one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. That can’t be applied to these dangerous men who I think are far worse than terrorists because they have no ideology, they hate women.

As someone who lives in Plymouth all I can say is this... Someone who takes a weapon and goes out into a neighbourhood and randomly kills people including a three year old little girl out walking with her daddy and brings fear and terror to the people of that neighbourhood is a TERRORIST!

@Whenigrowupiwanttobea

As someone who lives in Plymouth all I can say is this... Someone who takes a weapon and goes out into a neighbourhood and randomly kills people including a three year old little girl out walking with her daddy and brings fear and terror to the people of that neighbourhood is a TERRORIST!

No they’re not. They’re an out of control person with extreme mental health problems who should never have been allowed within a mile of a gun. Living in Plymouth clearly doesn’t mean an understanding of what terrorism means. It doesn’t mean terrifying people.

This guy is in the mould of Michael Ryan who killed 19 people in Hungerford in 1987. He also killed his mother.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre