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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think Biden is wrong to pull out of Afghanistan

180 replies

bluewanda · 11/08/2021 14:15

Biden says he doesn't regret the decision to withdraw US troops from Afghanistan. Really?!!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9883367/Taliban-going-door-door-forcibly-marrying-girls-young-TWELVE.html

I know the Americans can't be expected to sort out every problem on the world stage, but how can we just turn our backs and leave those poor girls in the hands of these monsters Sad There isn't any alternative IMO but to keep the troops there.

OP posts:
Thatsjustwhatithink · 11/08/2021 19:15

@Kokeshi123

Have you completely ignored afghan history??

noirmom · 11/08/2021 19:16

@Globaluser

No denying the taliban are truly disgusting vultures. They live in a land that believes what they’re doing is right. It’s despicable! But how can any educated man or woman of any western army turn into people sadist rapists and killers,who don’t value the life of inccoent civilians? So shouldn’t really be rooting their horn, should you?
Erm, no Afghan in Afghanistan thinks what the taliban is doing is right?
Wrenna · 11/08/2021 19:19

As an American who has friends that have done two long stints there, I know where you’re coming from but you Abu. Enough is enough.

BrozTito · 11/08/2021 19:19

They have quite a bit of support in Afghanistan (the taliban) not majority though.

OhWhyNot · 11/08/2021 19:19

It’s not Syria though there is far more involved for us

Afghanistan is incredibly rich in oil and gas

As is Iran. The Taliban are making Iran when nervous and that is something we absolutely do not want

Thomasina79 · 11/08/2021 19:23

I know, those darling girls. I have a two year old and an eighteen month year old grand daughter. So grateful they are in the UK. I’ve been teary thinking of those little girls in Afghanistan. Nothing I can do.

Those with daughters Hug your girls extra strongly tonight and hope for a better world in the future. Those with boys educate them about respect for girls and women and the need for equal rights. I have a son who is hugely aware of these issues. He is a fantastic dad to his daughter.

Perhaps together we could build a better world?

Thatsjustwhatithink · 11/08/2021 19:25

@OhWhyNot

It’s not Syria though there is far more involved for us

Afghanistan is incredibly rich in oil and gas

As is Iran. The Taliban are making Iran when nervous and that is something we absolutely do not want

I've fought in Afghanistan and spent a long time there. There's far cheaper and easiest places for resources. Afghanistan does not have significant oil or gas resources -its primarily northern resources are nothing compared to its neighbours. Have a look at the figures!!

We never want to get into a war with Iran, as the crappy attempt at a nuclear deal shows.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 11/08/2021 19:27

@OhWhyNot

Afghanistan's oil resources are similar to Chad...

nocturnalcatfreetogoodhome · 11/08/2021 19:29

@bluewanda

So we just leave those poor girls to a lifetime of rape and abuse? Wow, some really cold responses on this thread.
The west are not the international police.

This is a problem for the UN not one individual army.

There is very little US troops could do to prevent it. Unfortunately in parts of the world this is an accepted culture and western intervention does nothing more than worsen Middle Eastern-western relations.

America has its own problems to sort - police violence, gun control, endemic racism, poverty etc. The money used for military presence should be put to its own people before another country’s.

It sounds brutal but so is the way of the world. Afghanistan is a very different place culturally than it was 20/30 years ago (as is everywhere) though progress is slow, traditions like child marriage are becoming more and more taboo, it is their responsibility and their right to develop culturally at their own pace.

Western countries cannot inflict their ideals on cultures across the world just because we do not agree with it. That has happened before and we are dragging children’s remains out of the ground in Saskatchewan and other BC areas, thousands remain displaced generations later due to western intervention - see the Muslims in Pakistan who fled the pogroms in India.

We are not an unproblematic power force, we have our own issues which need resolving. Biden, and his troops, have done enough. It’s time to come home.

OhWhyNot · 11/08/2021 19:31

I thought the resources were rich

I know we don’t want to get into a war with Iran
And neither do we want Iran to be at war

Regardless of what the British public want if the government feel its right to go to war they will we know this from past experiences

VestaTilley · 11/08/2021 19:32

I agree completely.

It’s a disgraceful dereliction of duty by the West, particularly the US and NATO. They should have stayed.

Afghanistan will fall to the Taliban again- millions of women and girls will have their lives ruined. The West will end up paying another heavy price.

I’m ashamed of Joe Biden.

nocturnalcatfreetogoodhome · 11/08/2021 19:36

@VestaTilley

I agree completely.

It’s a disgraceful dereliction of duty by the West, particularly the US and NATO. They should have stayed.

Afghanistan will fall to the Taliban again- millions of women and girls will have their lives ruined. The West will end up paying another heavy price.

I’m ashamed of Joe Biden.

Dereliction of duty? Whose duty? American doesn’t owe a duty of care to any country other than its own.

UN needs to step up, not America. Biden is not responsible for the welfare of little girls who are not his own, he has child marriage, child trafficking, child poverty, child abuse etc on his own doorstep.

nocturnalcatfreetogoodhome · 11/08/2021 19:37

America*

Thatsjustwhatithink · 11/08/2021 19:47

@VestaTilley

I agree completely.

It’s a disgraceful dereliction of duty by the West, particularly the US and NATO. They should have stayed.

Afghanistan will fall to the Taliban again- millions of women and girls will have their lives ruined. The West will end up paying another heavy price.

I’m ashamed of Joe Biden.

@VestaTilley

You go then. Lots of NGOs you can join and help out over there. Just watch out for the constant threat of kidnap, landmines and IEDs.

Just remember than when you do get kidnapped it's UK/US soldiers that have to risk their lives for some stupid idealistic civilian who thinks that just by being there with their western culture they'll change centuries of pashtun/hazara/Tajik culture.

When are you booking your ticket?

Freddiefox · 11/08/2021 19:50

@VestaTilley

I agree completely.

It’s a disgraceful dereliction of duty by the West, particularly the US and NATO. They should have stayed.

Afghanistan will fall to the Taliban again- millions of women and girls will have their lives ruined. The West will end up paying another heavy price.

I’m ashamed of Joe Biden.

It’s so easy to volunteer other people lives isn’t it.
nocturnalcatfreetogoodhome · 11/08/2021 19:55

@Thatsjustwhatithink

Let’s get this post on a T-shirt. So easy to offer up support when it’s the lives of Johnny Reb.

Sit down with a soldier who has been in Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi, Syria etc. They do nothing but suppress, military presence is but a mere plaster. However if all of these posters think military presence is necessary they can go and try, or send their sons, daughters, husbands etc.

Martianworld · 11/08/2021 20:00

I understand the difference between Sunnis and Shias and the inheritance etc. But Muslim countries often berate western countries for getting involved in humanitarian issues. So just like Catholics and Protestants do, it's time to come to an acceptance of differences and put it aside for the good of more unfortunate countries. I'm not suggesting Sunnis go into a Shia country or vice versa, but there are about 2 billion Muslims in the world, 90% Sunni. Surely the leaders of these countries can work together? Catholic Spain works along side Protestant Sweden, after all. Can't the UN work it out?

And the reason why I suggest this is so western forces don't get sucked into these situations.

thegcatsmother · 11/08/2021 20:02

Martianworld Luxembourg does not have a big enough military to spend the required NATO 2%. However, they do fund other big ticket items for the Alliance such as large planes for airlift etc. They spend on capital projects for the Alliance.

Martianworld · 11/08/2021 20:03

@VestaTilley

I agree completely.

It’s a disgraceful dereliction of duty by the West, particularly the US and NATO. They should have stayed.

Afghanistan will fall to the Taliban again- millions of women and girls will have their lives ruined. The West will end up paying another heavy price.

I’m ashamed of Joe Biden.

Why are you expecting the west to do the heavy lifting. Why aren't you calling on Central Asian countries to sort out the situation. India and China are 2 of the richest countries in the world. Why are you blaming Biden and not Xi or Modi?
samyeagar · 11/08/2021 20:12

@Martianworld

I understand the difference between Sunnis and Shias and the inheritance etc. But Muslim countries often berate western countries for getting involved in humanitarian issues. So just like Catholics and Protestants do, it's time to come to an acceptance of differences and put it aside for the good of more unfortunate countries. I'm not suggesting Sunnis go into a Shia country or vice versa, but there are about 2 billion Muslims in the world, 90% Sunni. Surely the leaders of these countries can work together? Catholic Spain works along side Protestant Sweden, after all. Can't the UN work it out?

And the reason why I suggest this is so western forces don't get sucked into these situations.

Catholic Spain and Protestant Sweden are not fundamentalist dictatorial theocracies for starters. Much of the rest of the world is religiously and culturally in much the same position the christians and west were a thousand years ago, fighting true holy wars
Thatsjustwhatithink · 11/08/2021 20:18

@VestaTilley

You've really infuriated me tonight. You probably didn't mean it because the Afghan wars has had zero affect on you apart from you saying "how sad" after watching something on telly.

Have a think about the soldiers who lives and limbs you're volunteering. Because that's the reality for those of us who have friends that are never coming back. Guys that can't walk, can't see, have no arms, no legs, no genitals. Men and womens lives that are irreparably changed. Think of the Afghan civilians who are dead and maimed.

So next time, volunteer yourself.

NautaOcts · 11/08/2021 20:37

It all just feels so pointless ☹️
Can anyone who knows about these things tell me if there was any point/any good from foreign troops being there for 20 or so years?

NautaOcts · 11/08/2021 20:38

Must be so galling for service men and women who served there to see what’s happening. Do they feel their work was pointless? Or not see it like that

FreshFreesias · 11/08/2021 20:40

Blair and Bush made the situation so much worse with their illegal wars, we have some responsibility.
Biden is a creep.
We can only hope that he doesn’t start any more wars.

samyeagar · 11/08/2021 20:41

@NautaOcts

Must be so galling for service men and women who served there to see what’s happening. Do they feel their work was pointless? Or not see it like that
Many of us realized from the very beginning that we were never going to save the world on this one, or any of these situations really. All we could do was make it the best we could, for those we could, for as long as we could. It was never pointless.