AIBU to think Biden is wrong to pull out of Afghanistan

[bluewanda]

Biden says he doesn't regret the decision to withdraw US troops from Afghanistan. Really?!!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9883367/Taliban-going-door-door-forcibly-marrying-girls-young-TWELVE.html

I know the Americans can't be expected to sort out every problem on the world stage, but how can we just turn our backs and leave those poor girls in the hands of these monsters There isn't any alternative IMO but to keep the troops there.

If only it were as basic as letting them get on with it themselves. Get on with what? Planning and committing more and more extreme large scale terrorist attacks on UK /US/ European /anywhere else they believe are infidels soil?

That's without even thinking about what is happening to the ordinary decent people trying to live their lives under the regime. The women and girls who can't go to school and who are enforced into child marriage and having babies when their bodies are not mature. The boys being used in ways I won't write as it is too disturbing.

The USA aren't the world police, but they themselves say they are the super power, and they were hell bent on revenge after 9/11 in the first place. I was completely stunned when I heard Biden say what he did!

@onthinice

If only it were as basic as letting them get on with it themselves. Get on with what? Planning and committing more and more extreme large scale terrorist attacks on UK /US/ European /anywhere else they believe are infidels soil?

That's without even thinking about what is happening to the ordinary decent people trying to live their lives under the regime. The women and girls who can't go to school and who are enforced into child marriage and having babies when their bodies are not mature. The boys being used in ways I won't write as it is too disturbing.

The USA aren't the world police, but they themselves say they are the super power, and they were hell bent on revenge after 9/11 in the first place. I was completely stunned when I heard Biden say what he did!

But as we've seen here in the US, a police force is only as effective as the level of support of the people they are policing.

Actually, 17yo girl gets knocked up by 17yo boy so they get married. Child marriage.

It shows the importance of female empowerment in government. All countries have a deep seated patriarchal society but at least in the west the female problem has become aesthetic rather than life threatening (obviously domestic violence, rape ect..is not an aesthetic but in overall comparison)

However the freedoms of women in the west is relatively new when you think of the length of civilisation and realistically our rights can be chipped slowly away if necessary and its only the conscience of men and the educatiom of women that stop it.

Freedom for women in Africa and the Middle East will only come from education and the slow expanse of time. Women have a duty to support this whenever possible.

Government has the responsibility to enforce the conscience of the oppressors (men) through whatever means necessary but this won't happen whilst rape is seen as an aspect of war rather than a reason to go to war.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I literally cut and pasted the report from the webpage so blame unchained not me!

I believe you. That's their sub heading paragraph to catch attention. But if you read through, that's not the actual truth. The media are shocking.

@Martianworld
THank you, it was. So true about the media. I should not always be in such a hurry to post sources! Lol.

As others have said it’s a tough one but so many American and British lives have been lost and what for, basically nothing.
I think the question to ask yourself would you be prepared to send your children out there to die for no real advantage. They are a Muslim country so should be allowed to follow their beliefs, however much the west disagree.

@LouHotel

It shows the importance of female empowerment in government. All countries have a deep seated patriarchal society but at least in the west the female problem has become aesthetic rather than life threatening (obviously domestic violence, rape ect..is not an aesthetic but in overall comparison)

However the freedoms of women in the west is relatively new when you think of the length of civilisation and realistically our rights can be chipped slowly away if necessary and its only the conscience of men and the educatiom of women that stop it.

Freedom for women in Africa and the Middle East will only come from education and the slow expanse of time. Women have a duty to support this whenever possible.

Government has the responsibility to enforce the conscience of the oppressors (men) through whatever means necessary but this won't happen whilst rape is seen as an aspect of war rather than a reason to go to war.

And more generally, not just women, but freedom and self determination for anyone not born into an elite ruling class is a very recent construct. Many cultures of the world, ordinary men have not even reached a meaningful level of freedom or self determination, and still far worse for women. From a cultural evolution standpoint, things in many areas of the world are even further behind and worse off than what is being discussed here.

I think that we also need to concede that it's not just women who suffer under the Taliban. There are many men who dread their coming, which will lead to a form of bondage for them, and many are forward thinking, wanting the country to open up, and love their daughters, sisters and wives and don't want oppression for their future.

Pixie, if they were all on the same page re their religion, there would be no ansgt or problems

Agree Martian but at this moment it's small girls who are being stolen from their families and raped

@Panickingpavlova

That's actually not the case. Young boys are raped way more often. Before the Taliban it was common Afghan culture because girls and women don't often go outside the home. The Taliban originally gained strength in the south due to a Taliban commander standing up against a northern alliance commander who was raping little boys.

The Afghan army continue this and it was well known that what's they did to junior soldiers on a Thursday night. The british army used to appoint 'guardian angels" to protect the pretty young British soldiers from the 'advances' of Afghan soldiers. There's nothing more confusing for a young bloke from Western culture being transplanted into that world.

Translated from pashtun as common afghan phrase it "boys are for fun, girls are for marriage"

Google "the dancing boys of Afghanistan" or read any of the books on the origins of the Taliban Vs the northern alliance early on and why the population sides with the Taliban in the early days.

It's a brutal country with a deeply patriarchal culture that the armed forces (both US and UK) cannot change. There's so much division and cultural difference that you cannot just put western culture in and think it's going to stick. If the afghans or tribal groups want to change- they've got to do it.

Totally right to point that out, pavlova. Not at all disputing that women come off the worse as usual. Heart breaking for them and their families and I wouldn't want to take away from that. But I was just taking the issue wider than that, and was just trying to put a bit of balance that the Taliban are a curse and disaster for everyone. How horrendous must it be for a father to have to sacrifice his daughter under the threat of death of his other children. I can't think how my husband would be able to survive that.

Those lives wernt lost for nothing, a generation of young, intelligent, educted men and women have been able to emerge in urban afghanistan, but it cant go on forever. There were people fighting there who wernt even born on 9/11

Yep look up afghan tea boys . Perfectly socially acceptable there

I was disappointed with Bidens stance

The country is fractured the troops were not solving an issue but were providing some protection. There is no way they were not aware of the Taliban building up resources and they have walked away leaving the people vulnerable.

Once the taliban sets its sights on Iran international troops will be back in there

If the U.K. hadn’t gone in to Germany the Holocaust would have had a lot more victims
I don’t know anything about politics but on a human level it just makes me shudder with fear that this is going on in this day and age

@OhWhyNot

I was disappointed with Bidens stance

The country is fractured the troops were not solving an issue but were providing some protection. There is no way they were not aware of the Taliban building up resources and they have walked away leaving the people vulnerable.

Once the taliban sets its sights on Iran international troops will be back in there

@OhWhyNot

No we won't.

The British public has no interest in sending out soldiers there.

The UK cannot afford more more given our economic state post covid.

Very much like Syria...we will leave it.

The muhajadeen were armed by the us partly, but mainly with long gone stingers. The talibans weapons are 99%. Russian or chinese, loads and loads came from iran via the balkan wars

@Martianworld

What I think is the most shocking is that in the 21st century there are no Muslim countries coming forward with ideas and resources to keep peace in these countries and enforce basic human rights and equalities. Surely it would be easier for assistance to be accepted from countries with the same religion and therefore similar cultural backgrounds.

This!

No one thanks western forces for getting involved in these places. No one thanks the western forces for leaving these places. Basically being a western force is thankless. Its really up to the UN now.

@PlanDeRaccordement

YABU The US military is not a world police force. They’re under severe economic pressure to cut their defence spending. Similar to how U.K. cut their foreign aid. White knights aren’t wanted by the people of Afghanistan anyway.

Tbh when America pull their troops out and leave weapons to the Taliban I think it is America's problem.

But heyho USA has got enough opium now I guess

@Martianworld

What I think is the most shocking is that in the 21st century there are no Muslim countries coming forward with ideas and resources to keep peace in these countries and enforce basic human rights and equalities. Surely it would be easier for assistance to be accepted from countries with the same religion and therefore similar cultural backgrounds.

What Islamic countries do you suggest? Do you not understand a root issue is that there is a fundamental mismatch between Western values and as you put it 'Muslim countries' values. Hence we're better off out of it, and should never have gone in in the first place.

Taliban are Sunni, wont be involved with Iran.

@Kokeshi123

The US did not "fail." Millions of girls went to school as a result of the US staying in. And it is girls going to school that will eventually modernize Afghanistan.

May I also point out that Afghanistan is fucked up BECAUSE for 300 years the British, Americans and the Russians have used it for their political purposes with little thought for the Afghan people?

Bollocks. Of course they used the country for their own purposes, but Afghanistan has been a violent backward country for a really, really long time---long before outsiders decided to start interfering. I'm always amused at people who seem desperate to believe that the only reason a country can be dysfunctional is become of "wicked Westerners doing terrible things to it."

Afghanistan was not a problem country prior to any invasion. I'm talking from experience