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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

999 replies

herewegogc · 10/08/2021 21:27

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

OP posts:
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18
BoreOfWhabylon · 11/08/2021 01:20

@Falcor

You are absolutely right. And in trauma we should never be taught or told how to behave. I take everything back. Sorry.
I'm really pleased to read this Falcor. Well done.
SpidersAreShitheads · 11/08/2021 01:21

I’ve been following this on Twitter tonight. I am absolutely raging.

We are now at the point where an individual lied about his biological sex/trans status on a job application form which is legally allowed to select based on sex - and there were no consequences other than to appoint them as CEO of a female rape crisis centre. A position which the organisation said would be given exclusively to a woman.

He is legally still a man, he has no GRC.

Now cozily in charge, they want sex eradicated and replaced with gender. Wadhwa was raging with Scottish Parliament when they tightened up a legal wording and replaced gender with sex. Wadhwa was tweeting outrage all over the place and howling with fury.

But tonight, after there has been an out pouring from women who feel strongly about being told by a man how they’re allowed to feel after being sexually assaulted- Wadhwa thought it was quite funny. Tweets went up from Wadhwa which were very amused about how they had ruffled feathers tonight.

Interestingly Wadhwa has now hidden their tweets so only fellow cult members can see their snickering.

I thought it was interesting that when appointed as ceo of the rape centre, Wadhwa was keen to highlight the plight of BAME women and trans women. BAME women - absolutely right to highlight this - but trans women? I don’t think that trans women should be the main focus of a woman’s rape crisis centre. But it shows that Wadhwa is incapable of comprehending beyond their own sphere of experience. As a BAME person they can empathise with the need there, and as a trans woman Wadhwa can also empathise there too. But as for the rights of women - Wadhwa hasn’t got a clue and they aren’t really interested either. Well, not unless it’s telling us to be kinder while we’re traumatised. Telling us to ignore our rights under the law which explicitly says we can choose the sex of a rape counsellor.

Forcing women to be counselled by a person with a penis is against the law but shows how much power this circus has gained. It’s so very damaging. I don’t know how it’s gotten this far,

SD1978 · 11/08/2021 01:26

The excerpt from the podcast is fucking appalling. It puts (surprise) trans rights above women, trying to access the service. We will address your bigotry whilst you're trying to get support for your sexual assault? Fuck right off, then fuck right off again. How dare they. They should be removed from their position as they clearly have no fucking idea what women in crisis need.

Askmeaboutpins · 11/08/2021 01:26

@C8H10N4O2

Further, I really don't think the quote is saying that women shouldn't be able to ask to work with a woman to deal with their trauma. It's saying they should do so in a way that's respectful to others

Really? Someone who has been through a traumatic experience must first and foremost prioritise the sensitivities of their counselor even if they belong to the same group of people who assaulted her?

She must "reframe her trauma" and be the right kind of victim to be treated and helped as a victim?

Sod that. Women created rape crisis centres in response to trauma created by men. The roles in them are protected under the act because of the nature of the trauma. Its irrelevant what you personally chose or found acceptable, what matters here is the needs of the victims and not the feelings of the would be counselors - even if they are men.

Well said C8!

I would advise anyone who believes the bold part (first paragraph if the bold fails) of the above post to have a rethink. I live in a country that has gotten to this point a while ago. Rape victims who say no to a bio male as either a counselor or a room mate in a refuge are shown the door. Even if done politely women are not allowed a choice!

Waitwhat23 · 11/08/2021 01:42

There's been a fair few posters asking how we've got to this point. This thread is a really useful resource - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

GeorgeMichaelBluth · 11/08/2021 02:09

Joining the chorus to say YANBU. It would have been good to see the vote on this one.
What you described about your experience is terrifying @herewegogc and I hope you've received some decent support. Flowers

Chickenyhead · 11/08/2021 02:24

To be honest, I wouldn't even go to the counselling service on these terms.

Not because I'm some transphobe, I think that they have incredibly difficult life decisions and judgement in society.

But after a life of sexual abuse from males, from CSA to gang rape, I have complex PTSD. As such I have an unpredictable trauma response when confronted with males in unexpected and/or secluded places. I wet myself.

Because I don't want to do that for obvious reasons and because I would be considered a bigot. I wouldn't dream of going.

The biggest problem for me has been that immediately following rape I am unable to speak up for myself. I usually (ha) spiral in to high risk behaviours like promiscuity. Unfortunately this has happened 3 times in my life so far.

I have been really lucky that rape services were sex based. Because if they weren't, I wouldn't be here at all.

It wouldn't be the fault of the transwoman. It's my trauma, but I couldn't validate myself, let alone anyone else's identity.

Askmeaboutpins · 11/08/2021 02:40

@Chickenyhead Flowers

wellbehavedwomen · 11/08/2021 02:44

@Falcor

I am an non-British raging feminist. I honestly don't understand the anger against trans women and I think it is misplaced. It is men we should be angry with
@Falcor, when I first visited the Feminist boards, I went to read what they said, research it, and prove those horrible, mean, transphobic women wrong, using evidence and data!

The problem was, they weren't wrong. The evidence and data was all on their side. I just hadn't ever seen it, before, because I'd not read their claims anywhere else. Yet they were founded, on evidence and data, in a way the opposing claims just... aren't. Not when you really start to investigate.

I have no animus against anyone trans. Life is painful for every human, and I support anyone in living in a way that makes them happier, and better able to feel worthwhile and at peace with who they are. I don't care how that's achieved, as long as it harms nobody else. But biology doesn't cease to exist based on someone's personal, unknowable, subjective thought. That's magical thinking. Trans people have bodies, and those bodies remain sexed, and therefore, if that body is male, a statistical risk to those with female bodies.

Can I ask you to read this.

And then this.

And then this.

And then have a think about how feminist women like us were somehow sold the idea that prioritising the needs of people of male biology, ahead of people of female biology - even when it comes to the support of women raped by men! - is feminist. How can a movement that puts women at increased risk (because statistically, people's likelihood to commit violent crime is based on sex, and gender identity doesn't affect it in either direction)... how in the world can this movement be a feminist one?

What sort of feminism allows a woman to face hundreds of pornographic images of erect penises, declaring she will be raped by them, and then in the next breath graphically hateful descriptions of her genitalia as too old for anyone to bother with, as happened to JK Rowling? What sort of feminism can justify any woman deserving this, and not defending her against it? And in her case, it was solely for the crime of asking that women not be dehumanised by reduction to 'menstruators'... and then for writing an essay, where she talked about her own experience of rape and domestic violence, and how it informed her concerns for women, in erasing sex in favour of self-declared gender - and that was met by an avalanche of rape threats. Yet the general response seemed to vary from, "she had it coming," to "I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears and whistle."

I repeat: a woman writes a careful, thoughtful essay about women's rights, as a rape survivor; is met by an avalanche of rape threats - and almost everyone is either too fucking scared to say anything, or launches into a sanctimonious condemnation of her. And the latter group additionally insist that the perpetrators are feminists, while Rowling isn't. This is utter madness. People making vilely sexist, explicit threats of sexual violence to a woman, for voicing the view that women matter, are not feminists. Not in any universe. We are well and truly through the fucking looking glass with that one. Yet a load of blue ticks earnestly backed that standpoint up. Is anyone here for that? Seriously? Because that level of open misogyny is beyond the wildest dreams of any previous Men's Rights Activist - and here, it's framed as feminism. Because while it's pretty degrading for the boring old women with vaginas, it supports the infinitely more urgent rights of women with penises.

Maybe it's just me, but that looks awfully familiar, somehow.

We are allowing male people access to women's communal changing rooms at their request. We are housing male sex offenders in women's prisons at their request. We are housing male sex offenders in women's hospital wards at their request. Women survivors of rape who ask for female medical staff to perform intimate exams have had their letters used in training staff on unacceptable bigotry, without their knowledge. Intimate exams being performed by same-sex clinicians is specifically cited in the Equality Act as a protected, and acceptable, exception to gender reassignment rights. Yet it's been used, in training, as an example of bigotry. Most women have no idea any of this is happening. And that's quite deliberate.

Personally, I think that's incredibly good evidence that it desperately, and urgently, needs discussion, and for us to think about it, and read up on the side you aren't being told - even if just to disagree with that side! At least know what you are disagreeing with. At least know what the two sides of the discussion are. And this book, and this one, are exceptionally good places to start. Because sex matters. We are through the looking glass here, in trying to deny that fact.

wellbehavedwomen · 11/08/2021 02:51

@Chickenyhead Flowers

I'm so glad you had single sex provision when you needed it - and so very, very sorry that you did.

Falcor · 11/08/2021 03:05

wellbehavedwomen

What a beautiful, sad, smart, angry, fantastic post. I want to be your friend and hear what you say.

I will read all of the suggestions. I am not sure it will make me a better person

midsummabreak · 11/08/2021 03:22

Absolutely disgusting that they are using the platform of being CEO at a rape Crisis Centre to dictate and warn survivors of sexual assault before they the survivors have even entered into the place for support.

honeyytoast · 11/08/2021 03:41

I’m not anti trans at all but this is so weird - people in crisis because of rape don’t need to be challenged on their prejudices, because they’re irrelevant in this situation, surely. Unless they were hurling verbal/physical abuse, it’s irrelevant. A victim of SA does not need to be lectured on unrelated topics while they’re being helped Hmm

Rhannion · 11/08/2021 04:14

YADNBU op , and thank you for opening eyes to what is going on in Scotland. Women Won’t Wheest here or anywhere else when our rights are being destroyed. More sunlight on this appalling situation the better.

LoislovesStewie · 11/08/2021 05:25

I really can't find the words to show my utter disgust. Clearly we are no longer allowed to be women; I can't decide whether to cry or laugh, because if it wasn't so desperately worrying, the whole thing would be laughable. I can envisage women foregoing certain services because the last thing they need is to be lectured on so-called prejudices. After making progress in my lifetime, we are going backwards at a rate of knots.

Stuckhere2021 · 11/08/2021 05:48

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HeddaAga · 11/08/2021 06:08

You cannot say on the one hand that it’s too traumatizing for a trans woman to use the male bathrooms but not too traumatizing for a woman who is fleeing from a man who beat and raped her to stay in a hostel managed by a man.

Well, quite, but that is where we are. Time to put an end to the farce, but the grown ups who should be calling this out seem to have left the room. Cowards.

moose62 · 11/08/2021 07:00

Bet this is one thread the Daily Mail won't touch with a barge pole!

LittleMyTopKnot · 11/08/2021 07:01

This is awful. Flowers to all women who have been raped.

I cannot even imagine the trauma for the rape victims in Scotland. I cannot imagine being unable to (after rape!!!) access a female therapist or being told that you are a bigot because you don’t want to be examined by a person with a penis.

HeddaAga · 11/08/2021 07:26

@moose62

Bet this is one thread the Daily Mail won't touch with a barge pole!
To give the Mail their due this is one issue they haven't shied away from, The Times similarly. The rest of the sorry lot of them...
PaleGreenGhost · 11/08/2021 07:36

I am so sorry for your experience OP.

I am generally very happy now, with a good life, family, friends etc. But I still have to structure so much of my life around avoiding unknown males. I've had years of therapy, including emdr, specifically for trauma.

I would LOVE to be less fearful around unknown males. I seek out female driving instructors, doctors, anything where we will be together in a space. It makes public transport harder. It means I have to wait longer for medical procedures and each time I ask for a female I fear being branded a BIGOT because now simply needing to be seen by a female apparently means I am transphobic.

Super well done to the poster/s who come here to specifically inform us they don't experience a debilitating fear of males. Hope you have a warm glow of satisfaction for being so socially acceptable.

DrSbaitso · 11/08/2021 07:38

This reply has been deleted

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FindTheTruth · 11/08/2021 07:38

Gut wrenching and heartwarming thread on what reframing did in real life for rape trauma. compared to what MW said
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1424888879392464898.html

"She reframed my trauma, she reframed my metaphor, she gave me a great gift. That kind of reframing is possible in therapy, with a good therapist and a willing client. That is the kind of reframing that can save a life. She saved mine that day. She gave me hope"
.
.

.

"The reframing in that tweet is not in service of the raped and victimised women; the women have to submit to the frame

The frame looks more valuable than the picture.

This is the exact opposite of the way reframing works. It is a perversion of good therapy. It's sick.

Raped and traumatised women, like I was, need time and space to heal. Women like I was need tools to rebuild, we need grout, and gloves. Women like I was need safety and a place to make our own metaphors, our own mosaics, to reframe our own trauma.

What we emphatically DO NOT need is to have our political beliefs “reframed” by a therapist, in service of an extreme ideology.

It is at best, pointless, at worst, may retraumatise an already vulnerable woman "

Congressdingo · 11/08/2021 07:42

I agree that everyone should be able to ask for treatment/support from someone they feel comfortable with but, frankly, I find the whole notion that every transwoman trying to enter women's spaces has nefarious intentions incredibly offensive

I would like you to answer how do you tell a transwoman from a general purpose man? So you go into the changing room and theres a naked or clothed man there or is he a transwoman.
Do you have some kind of second sight, is it the aurora, do you just know, can you see into their souls? Please do share with the rest of us.

suspiria777 · 11/08/2021 07:45

@happydays2345

As someone who has been sexually assaulted I need a decent human to listen to me. I personally don't care how they identify.
Same. The women police officers I spoke to were worse than anyone else, it was completely retraumatising. I'd rather have spoken to someone compassionate and caring, whatever their gender identity.
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