AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

[herewegogc]

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

I kind of agree with her.

As a back ground I'm currently in complex PTSD therapy and my therapist is male. He's non threatening and thoughtful and reassuring and completely asexual and fairly feminine in his behaviours to me.

If he were sexist, talked over me, older, bald or called John I'd really struggle. As he does none of those things, is younger, has long curly hair and is not called John, I'm fine.

The last thing I could ever imagine him saying if I did have a problem with him being male is something blunt like "reframe your trauma". He'd talk through it and if it were still an issue I daresay he'd move me to one of his colleagues.

I think what the quoted person is clumsily trying to say is that if someone comes to use their service with an attitude of 'no trans ever" then that is a bigoted attitude that isn't tolerated. If someone comes to use their service without that attitude but does have the problem of XYZ triggering them then that is something that rightly needs to be addressed through therapy. For the most part therapists are fairly good at managing their their therapeutic relationships.

Triggers are just that- triggers. They're irrational and ingrained and uncontrollable. Its not a conscious decision to hurt someone's feelings.

When we discuss trans rights we so often discuss things in absolutes, with straw man arguments or the mythical pervert-man-in-a-dress. Its not helpful, and witch hunt soundbite klaxoning a call to arms isn't a good thing.

This on the link posted says it all really “CEO of a [rape crisis] centre does not talk about the devastating impact of lockdown and the heightened violence women faced, but focused on trans people”.

Always the same. If there’s any opportunity to centre transgender people, even women at their most vulnerable don’t matter.

And the presenter chatting on about how seemingly easy women have it, arriving at a women’s refuge “knowing they will be welcomed”. But a transwoman’s experience will be automatically more traumatic because they don’t know it they’ll be welcome
Apologies for the graphic and potentially triggering DV scenario below…
Almost as if the presenter of a “feminist” podcast and the director of a rape crisis centre don’t know that:
a) the time a woman leaves is the most dangerous
b) she’s often left everything, money, possessions, job, contact with mutual friends and family behind (how very “relaxing”, how very “privileged” women are)
c) there are refuges for transwomen d) if a man turns up to a women’s refuge, how are the staff to determine if they’re a trans woman or a man who’s turned up to murder the partner who has left him? Hence why men are excluded. It’s called safeguarding and it’s fucking suspect that the director of a rape crisis centre is seemingly unaware of it.

Anyway, apologies for going off on a rant OP. You are not unreasonable. Edinburgh Rape Crisis are a disgrace and failing the women they are meant to be supporting.

The Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre is not fit for purpose.
They should be centring women's needs at the core of their service, not telling them they are bigots, are thinking wrong thoughts and need to reframe their trauma to suit someone else.

As a rape survivor and someone who used to volunteer at Edinburgh Rape Crisis many many years ago, I cannot believe what it has become. What a far cry from its origins of a feminist collective.

I’m glad that this podcast / interview has come under the glaring spotlight. We women refuse to have our concerns regarding sex-based rights brushed away in the name of male centering wokeism and the more people that get to know about this farce the better.

@Grimbelina

gimmenachos and happydays2345 that's great for you but don't give away the rights of another vulnerable woman (and perhaps her children) to speak to a female, if that is what they chose and makes them feel safe.

If you read my post, I clearly say that everyone should be able to ask to work with someone they are comfortable with. And this works both ways - if a counsellor feels uncomfortable working with someone who shares bigoted views, should they be obliged to carry on? Further, I really don't think the quote is saying that women shouldn't be able to ask to work with a woman to deal with their trauma. It's saying they should do so in a way that's respectful to others.

YANBU and this is honestly so disgusting. Where are rape victims in Edinburgh supposed to go? The last thing a traumatised woman needs is someone trying to 'reframe her trauma'. That is so unacceptable.

U.K. n the article linked above it talks about DFW tying herself in knots over it and basically telling women abuse victims to check their privilege.

I’m so disappointed in her. I remember when I first started listening to the guilty feminist and I was so blown away by her, so overwhelmed by the podcasts that I thought were amazing and now I’m disgusted.

I was raped at 16, but, 17 years later, I realised it’s not actually the rape
that caused the biggest damage. It’s the multiple minor attack, physically, verbally, in the run up. These were so damaging that when I was finally raped by a taxi driver, it almost felt inevitable.

I’m 33 years old and I am intimidated by men and their presence because of my loved experiences. I have a brother, a partner, a son and a male friend but apart from that I make it my business to keep other males at a distance because it’s safer. I had one male therapist at the start of 2020 who told me I was neurotic for worrying about covid.

I had an abusive relationship until I was 27. Hell would have frozen over before I willingly sat in a room with a male bodied person, regardless of how they presented, and made myself vulnerable by discussing my history with them.

@Meatshake “if someone comes to use their service with an attitude of 'no trans ever" then that is a bigoted attitude that isn’t tolerated
a reasonable response to a crime committed by men and legally should be accommodated under the exemptions to the Equality Act 2010”

I think what the quoted person is clumsily trying to say is that if someone comes to use their service with an attitude of 'no trans ever" then that is a bigoted attitude that isn't tolerated. If someone comes to use their service without that attitude but does have the problem of XYZ triggering them then that is something that rightly needs to be addressed through therapy
Meatshake do you genuinely think that there aren't many ordinary, non-bigoted women who at a time of crisis, having experienced rape, would like to speak to a female when they go to Rape Crisis? Why should part of the counselling deal with "so, why do you not want to discuss your traumatic experience of rape with someone who has a penis?"

I just really can't understand why anyone wouldn't think someone in this situation shouldn't have the right to specify the sex of the person they are opening up to.

But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

This CEO is bringing discriminatory beliefs: discriminating against traumatised women who need people of their own sex. Sex is a protected characteristic, and iirc rape counsellors were one of the specific examples used of proportionate exceptions to the EA - women should be allowed single sex services. It doesn't matter if some women are ok with male counsellors; many are not, through no 'fault' or 'bigotry', but as the result of the crimes committed against them by males.

The Rape Crisis service should be prioritising the needs of the people who need its services. Not those of its CEO. If a person in that position can't understand the basic needs of many women then - regardless of whether that person is male or female - then they are unsuited to the job.

YANBU, OP.

@gimmenachos

*I agree with this completely as a survivor of rape, sexual assault and domestic abuse. I attend a support group for women that is co-led by a man. It doesn't impact on how safe I feel there and this person is very good at his job. I don't think it's fair to judge people's qualities based on how they identify.

OP, YABU to believe that all women should agree that transwomen shouldn't be allowed into safe spaces and to assume that all women who have been assaulted need a female to talk to. I don't. I need someone compassionate and who can listen.

I agree that everyone should be able to ask for treatment/support from someone they feel comfortable with but, frankly, I find the whole notion that every transwoman trying to enter women's spaces has nefarious intentions incredibly offensive.

Also, there's a whole board devoted to this topic so YABU for discussing this here.

Awaiting the flaming...*

You seem to have missed the point, quite spectacularly.

I'm really pleased that you found a support group that is safe for you, free of judgement.

But, surely you're not suggesting that just because you are comfortable in a group with a man, you seem to be suggesting that every person should also be comfortable, when at their most vulnerable, being offered care by someone of the opposite sex. I'm sure you're not suggesting that everyone should think the same as you do, are you?

Nobody has suggested that every transwoman entering a woman's space does so for nefarious reasons.

What has been said is that a male applied for 2 jobs working with vulnerable, traumatised women. A job which the employer understood needed a female worker for (hence their advert restricting applications to females only). This male applied for the 1st job. This male lied on the application form, and was interviewed & offered the job.
This same male, took to Social Media to complain that a law had been passed to allow rape victims to specify that their FME was of the same sex as them.
This same male asked to be included on a Woman's Shortlist for election to parliament, thereby removing a place for a woman.

Nobody is suggesting that all transwomen are predators, but are stating that this person is not a suitable person for the job they hold, for the many reasons above

'Feminine in his behaviours'.

#Nothankyou

If I wanted or needed to talk to a woman, a man who imagined himself or was perceived to be 'feminine' would not be that. I've no idea what 'feminine behaviours' would even look like. But they certainly wouldn't encompass being a woman.

Tato has said what I was trying to far more succinctly

YANBU

Hell would have frozen over before I willingly sat in a room with a male bodied person, regardless of how they presented, and made myself vulnerable by discussing my history with them.

I feel exactly the same way. There is literally zero chance of me ever discussing my experience of rape and sexual assault with a male counsellor, no matter how he identifies or how much of a bigot he accuses me of being.

I really don't think the quote is saying that women shouldn't be able to ask to work with a woman to deal with their trauma. It's saying they should do so in a way that's respectful to others.

It reads to me that women shouldn't even be holding these beliefs, and they'll be challenged if they do. Nothing to do with the way in which a request is made.

"But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices."

A rape crisis centre just isn't the time or place for this. No one going through that trauma should have any of their beliefs about anything challenged.

And the presenter chatting on about how seemingly easy women have it, arriving at a women’s refuge “knowing they will be welcomed”. But a transwoman’s experience will be automatically more traumatic because they don’t know it they’ll be welcome

The presenter should have realised some time ago that the reason she feels guilty is because she isn't a feminist.

I used to work for a rape crisis service a few years ago. They were absolutely clear that they were a feminist organisation and all the staff were female. They did see male victims, but it was only one day a week and on just one floor of the building. It blows my mind that this person has been allowed to become the CEO of a rape crisis service and has zero understanding of the need a of traumatized women. Utterly disgraceful.

Meatshake when I trained as psychotherapist i had my therapy with a male therapist he was great but I choose that as I wanted to challenge myself.

When I wanted support after I was raped and feeling vulnerable and scaredi I did not want any challenges I just wanted to feel safe and a male would not offer that support

This is how many girls and women feel

This is fucking enraging. Traumatised women should "reframe their trauma"? Why? So they don't hurt the feelings of some men uncomfortable with male stereotypes. Fuck the fuck off. 😡😡😡

I'm really hoping that 're-frame your trauma' is going to turn out to be a quote out of context. But I fear I'm wrong.

@gimmenachos if a counsellor feels uncomfortable working with someone who shares bigoted views, should they be obliged to carry on?

a) believing that people cannot change sex and wanting to access a single sex service is not bigoted. They are both protected in law.

b) the counsellor doesn’t need to work there. Women in Edinburgh who have been raped have nowhere else to go. Rape crisis centres don’t exist to fulfil the career ambitions of transwomen. They exist for the incredibly vulnerable women who need them.

I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political

Yeah, that's what being CEO of a rape charity is all about: the chance to push your politcs onto staff and rape victims.