AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

[herewegogc]

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

NO THANK YOU

Sometimes I feel like I’ve woken up in a different country.

This is an illogical approach - obviously.

I will never donate to Rape Crisis again. Where are the sane and reasonable charities supporting women?

Where are the sane and reasonable charities supporting women?

good question. here's one.
"At nia we prioritise women, women as a sex class."
niaendingviolence.org.uk/get-informed/prioritising-women/

It’s not inconceivable that a male fetishist obsessed with female rape victim trauma would seek a position in a rape centre where they can listen in on rape survivors calls 4 times a week, think about rape victims orgasming and punish survivors for not validating them.

It’s not inconceivable that a male fetishist obsessed with female bodies, aroused at the thought of themselves as a woman as a sexual fetish, usually attracted to women, would get into activism in a political party or government, campaigning to remove sex-based rights in EqA2010 in political party policy, conferences and new 'hate-laws', in order to gain access to women.

Argh I’m so angry about this. Why are the papers not picking up on this. I’d like this to be in the daily mail tbh as it would reach a lot more people!

Here's the full quote for clarity. Mridul Wadhwa hasn't said anything untoward.

'I think it's important that there's a group of women that I'm really interested in, who are affected by this debate. And I say debate very generously because I don't believe it is. Debate is when there's equality of voices and respect. But this is about who has power and who doesn't.

But there are a group of survivors who will be watching and seeing what is being played out about spaces that they're potentially going to use. And be informed or misinformed about what actually happens here and be possibly be fearful. And I think if you're worried about these things, about inclusion and what trans inclusion means within women's organisations, and if your local women's organisation of Rape Crisis Centre or Women's Aid is openly trans inclusive, and you just don't understand, reach out to them and ask those questions.

I think its important to know that we see you as an individual. And we come as survivors with experiences that often feel to the outside world as holding prejudice. So we might have fear of man of a certain ethnicity, we might have fear of trans people, and it could be linked to an experience of trauma. I think it is it is okay to hold those things as long as you are willing to acknowledge that, in support, we will accept that

But there is a difference also when, and I am not sure if I said this as clearly and transparently as I want to, but I'm trying. Apologies, it I havest done it wes. But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can't forget, and you can't go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents. And some of us never, ever had a life before traumatic incidents. But if you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice Otherwise, you can't really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that's a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn't always seen as that.'

So yes, YABU. It's completely fine what she said, quoted out of context by anti trans group obviously makes Wadhwa seem disingenuous when that simply isn't the case.

@Ghislainedefeligonde

Argh I’m so angry about this. Why are the papers not picking up on this. I’d like this to be in the daily mail tbh as it would reach a lot more people!

Articles rape Brendan O Neill for Spiked www.spiked-online.com/2021/08/11/now-even-rape-victims-are-being-called-bigots/

The Critic
thecritic.co.uk/reframe-your-trauma/

Times
archive.is/gezUd

New articles

Brendan O Neill for Spiked
www.spiked-online.com/2021/08/11/now-even-rape-victims-are-being-called-bigots/

The Critic
thecritic.co.uk/reframe-your-trauma/

Times
archive.is/gezUd

It’s not inconceivable

It has always been the case, in fact. It is nothing new that males would do this.

The difference is that there is a new layer to the experience. Now males can also ensure that women are further involved by compelling speech and to control what that male might interpret as a micro aggression by way of facial expression or even moving away from them.

No. There is nothing fundamentally new. It is a small group, certainly not all.

Even in the way other women will support their aspirations.

Except it is now being written into law to make it harder to prevent.

@Handsoffstrikesagain

Women that support the eradication of their fellow woman’s rights are particularly terrifying.

Nothing new under the sun.

I'm thinking of the #WomenWontWheesht brand of suffragist colours that have been (aptly) appropriated in this fight. Back in the day there was a vociferous anti-suffragist campaign, spearheaded by the likes of the novelist Mrs Humphrey (Mary) Ward, who thought it was a really cool idea to call herself by a bloke's first name, and Angel in the House Julia Stephen.

Why would any woman want to deny her own rights as an autonomous citizen to something as basic as a vote, to not have her opinion spoken for her by the males in her household? Just why? And the worst problem with women like this is they don't only want to deny these rights on their own behalf, but also insist on foisting that denial on every other woman in the country.

This is akin to the 'roll over and concede every inch of the ground won over the last century' brand of 'inclusive "feminist"'.

Cannot compute.

@Loobylouu

Here's the full quote for clarity. Mridul Wadhwa hasn't said anything untoward.

'I think it's important that there's a group of women that I'm really interested in, who are affected by this debate. And I say debate very generously because I don't believe it is. Debate is when there's equality of voices and respect. But this is about who has power and who doesn't.

But there are a group of survivors who will be watching and seeing what is being played out about spaces that they're potentially going to use. And be informed or misinformed about what actually happens here and be possibly be fearful. And I think if you're worried about these things, about inclusion and what trans inclusion means within women's organisations, and if your local women's organisation of Rape Crisis Centre or Women's Aid is openly trans inclusive, and you just don't understand, reach out to them and ask those questions.

I think its important to know that we see you as an individual. And we come as survivors with experiences that often feel to the outside world as holding prejudice. So we might have fear of man of a certain ethnicity, we might have fear of trans people, and it could be linked to an experience of trauma. I think it is it is okay to hold those things as long as you are willing to acknowledge that, in support, we will accept that

But there is a difference also when, and I am not sure if I said this as clearly and transparently as I want to, but I'm trying. Apologies, it I havest done it wes. But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can't forget, and you can't go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents. And some of us never, ever had a life before traumatic incidents. But if you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice Otherwise, you can't really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that's a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn't always seen as that.'

So yes, YABU. It's completely fine what she said, quoted out of context by anti trans group obviously makes Wadhwa seem disingenuous when that simply isn't the case.

You posted that before (maybe on another thread?) and still it reads to me as centering the male. It's not reasoned or compassionate which you claimed it was. I really don't understand why you would post that to support your view that MW was reasonable. It very clearly shows MW is utterly lacking in understanding of the trauma victims face.

So yes, YABU. It's completely fine what she said, quoted out of context by anti trans group obviously makes Wadhwa seem disingenuous when that simply isn't the case.

Women on this board are quite knowledgeable, Lou. They read, digest and understand the nuances of this debate, have been doing so for years. And they read. A lot. There are few posts on this thread which demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the deeply unpleasant sentiments expressed by this unfit-for-purpose CEO in that ugly little screed.

This isn't a question of 'women have confused their pretty little heads about what was said'. They have understood its meaning perfectly well. And have said #NoThankYou.

As a victim of rape I can tell you that what MW has said is 'not fine', that within that context - indeed, especially within that context - it is deeply offensive, and that politicking the trauma (and its therapy) of a particularly vulnerable group of victims of male violence is not okay.

The statement in particular that 'sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well' is particularly off-kilter and frankly disgusting. This person has no business anywhere near traumatized victims.

I'd agree with you on your last point. MW is not, indeed, being disingenuous. Now MW has secured that role and presumably feels secure within it, MW is in plain sunlight and showing the rest of the world precisely who MW is and what MW stands for.

We can see MW.

Good post @FindTheTruth

Wow, MW thinks rape is empowering. It is worse than I thought.
How the hell did this happen!

It's completely fine what she said, quoted out of context by anti trans group obviously makes Wadhwa seem disingenuous when that simply isn't the case.

Either you don't know or are conveniently forgetting that MW left the SNP because they voted overwhelmingly in favour of an amendment to a bill which would give women the right to request the sex of their forensic examiner after they had been raped or sexually assaulted. MW thought that forensic examiners should be allocated on the basis of gender identity. How can you possibly think it is OK to gaslight a traumatised woman and accuse her of bigotry because she recognizes sex regardless of gender identity? Would you honestly tell this woman she is a bigot for wanting single sex services?

mobile.twitter.com/HazelTarragon/status/1425384110411943936

It's completely fine what she said, quoted out of context by anti trans group obviously makes Wadhwa seem disingenuous when that simply isn't the case.

Thank you.

I have even read the entire transcript.

You are welcome to your interpretation. However, I am with the many who can read this and understand that during the course of treatment, this CEO who trains staff and influences policy has said that any ‘bigot’ will be educated to remove that bigoted thinking as well.

Meaning very clearly that along with therapy, you are going to have thoughts that this person believes is wrong challenged until you stop wrong think by THEIR opinion of wrong think.

It is very clearly once you get through the word salad.

centering the male. absolutely this. I agree.

It is saying that women who are abused by a man because on the whole men hold more power, and because on the whole it is men who abuse, are not allowed to acknowledge that in any form in case it comes out as predjudice. There is a reality that more men abuse (far, far more than women) which is being completely avoided. And the one place you need that not to be avoided is a rape crisis center or domestic abuse shelter.

I'm glad this thread is staying in AIBU, if it wakes up one or two more women as to what is going on then it is a good thing.

What I don't understand is people who say that what is happening with MW is unacceptable, and Hubbard is unacceptable, but still TWAW (because whatever placating reason they tell themselves).

Can they not see the correlation between the two - that these situations are a natural consequence of perpetuating a falsehood that humans can change sex.

These more extreme issues (women being raped in prison, men in women's Olympic sports, teenage girls getting mastectomies etc.) are not just anomalies, they are where this ultimately leads. They won't stop happening, or being allowed to happen until we reign in the falsehoods.

That one lie is the foundation of all this madness.

you have to reframe your trauma
This is shocking and horrific!

No woman who has been raped has to reframe her trauma to suit someone else!

She needs support - clearly one of the biggest organisations is now not going to support. It is going to indoctrinate.

Well I hope more people seeing this.

Anything women-only that you wish to remain women-only is being framed as "anti trans".

What do you think about that?

No woman who has been raped has to reframe her trauma to suit someone else!

She needs support - clearly one of the biggest organisations is now not going to support. It is going to indoctrinate.

Indeed. MW was appointed to that post very recently and has wasted no time in publicising MW's MO. Not that that wasn't obvious from the outset.

It truly is a despicable set of sentiments.

I don't agree with that, I think there is culturally room for trans men and women because I fully believe that there are plenty of genuine trans people just trying to live their lives in peace.

There is one group of people saying that there is absolutely no difference between a trans woman and a man and there is no room to entertain this idea at all. There is another group saying transwomen must be treated as biological women and any distinction or message to the contrary is biggotry.

Both of these rhetorics are damaging and don't really take in the full picture. However, I don't actually think this is the right thread to discuss this and it is derailing to the issue. As a trans inclusive feminist even I can see that this is completely fucked up.

Also sorry but I don't think there is any "taken out of context" defence to be had here. MW's agenda is very clear.

What I don't understand is people who say that what is happening with MW is unacceptable, and Hubbard is unacceptable, but still TWAW (because whatever placating reason they tell themselves).

It reveals to me how little knowledge people have about what is really going on.

Stonewall insist on acceptance without exception.

If you think males should not complete in women's sport, that women should have the right to single sex spaces or to request female rape counsellors then you are a transphobe because that is what acceptance without exception means as evidenced by their campaign to remove sex from the equalities act and replace it with gender. Stonewall have later denied this but the receipts are easy enough to find.

It's is a demand for total capitulation not an appeal for tolerance, compassion and empathy.

Just adding that I'm another woman who has read and listened to) MW's full statement to make sure I have the context.
This isn't being taken out of context. It's MWs own words and it's just as bad as it sounds.
I'm tired of seeing rape victims' expected to prioritise MW's beliefs and feelings, no matter how traumatising, instead of MW accommodating theirs, considering that is MW's actual jog.