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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

999 replies

herewegogc · 10/08/2021 21:27

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

OP posts:
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HeddaAga · 12/08/2021 06:20

It really comes to something when the wants of the supposed counsellors are prioritised over the needs of the traumatised users of the service. That is completely inappropriate and renders the service unfit for purpose.

This. A service for victims of sexual violence should prioritise the needs of those victims. This isn't about the victims.

ScreamingMeMe · 12/08/2021 06:28

YANBU

merrymouse · 12/08/2021 06:42

For those that are maybe wondering what rights trans people don’t have already…

I think this stopped being about the rights of a specific group called ‘trans’ people who live and present as the opposite sex a while ago.

Practically, ‘inclusive’ policies can allow anyone to use any service regardless of sex. ‘Trans’ is subjectively defined and includes people who present as their birth sex all or some of the time.

malloo · 12/08/2021 06:54

YANBU

MadameKali · 12/08/2021 07:03

💐 To all the women on this thread who have shared their stories of pain and abuse. Women shouldn't have to demonstrate why this is wrong by saying "This is what happened to me and this is how it made me feel"
Women saying no should be enough. Especially in the context of a rape crisis centre.

#nothankyou

Handsoffstrikesagain · 12/08/2021 07:34

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JustcameoutGC · 12/08/2021 07:35

Jesus, this thread is heart breaking. How have we gotten to the point where the impact of sexual trauma on women has to be spelled out so explicitly as a defence against the indefensible.

I have never been the victim of SA. But I did have a partner who was a master of gaslighting.

I keep imagining the women turning up at Edinburgh rape crisis centre, many will have been serially abused by the men closest to them, abusers like my ex who would erode the fabric of reality to the point where I questioned my sanity. They could then, at their most vulnerable be given a TW counsellor or medical examiner, because TW are women, regardless of what your senses tell you.

Trying to put myself in the place of that woman is so fucking upsetting. Where does she turn? What happens to her next?

And then, what are the motivations of the TW in this scenario? Why choose that particular career? Why insist on being in that particular room? Why not any of the other careers and rooms they could be in?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/08/2021 07:37

And then women like the Guilty ones and Wroxie cheerleading for male rights to do this.

Handsoffstrikesagain · 12/08/2021 07:43

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LimpLettice · 12/08/2021 08:26

Absolutely, @ThumbWitchesAbroad. Can you imagine any group of marginalised women making these mammoth changes to policy & perceptions in so short a time? Just not credible.

Glad to see this in AIBU. The thought that this even needs to be discussed is beyond depressing but the time has come to start discussing this with everyone. No one sane with one ounce of empathy can think telling raped women to 'reframe their trauma' to appease TW is okay. Go sit with a woman who has been attacked and shakes with fear every time a man approaches and tell them 'you're alright, I don't mind a man counselling me, so you'll be fine too.' Go on.

Only one type of male insists on imposing themselves on female traumatised minds and bodies at their hour of need, and it isn't the good ones. I would never suggest all TW are doing it for nefarious purposes, but I'm damn sure the ones doing it then lying about it and pushing a career which intimidates vulnerable women most certainly are. If this CEO was in fact female, they would understand the horror of what they were suggesting, have empathy and back the feck off.

Congressdingo · 12/08/2021 08:31

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Jorrris · 12/08/2021 08:38

I suspect Wroxie won't be returning ever and will name change through embarrassment. Hopefully she will have learnt something from the educated and intelligent women here, as the clever activists of whom she speaks of don't appear to have turned up yet. 🤔

YouSetTheTone · 12/08/2021 08:48

In the same transcript of the Guilty Feminist interview MW says that people who call him a man ‘..can fuck right off’ (screenshot attached).

From his words about bigots and reframing trauma it appears that ‘fuck right off’ is also basically MW’s response to women who correctly identify the sex of their attackers or women who request a female counsellor.

It seems to me that the position this person holds in ERC is deeply inappropriate and the appointment should be revisited.

AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?
merrymouse · 12/08/2021 08:55

I think MW needs to take up some of these complaints with Stonewall.

MW may believe that there is a clear category of post transition trans women. Stonewall would regard that type of categorisation as gate keeping.

Regardless there is no justification for the stance on ‘reframing trauma’.

Ghislainedefeligonde · 12/08/2021 08:56

I agree youset what exactly is MW adding to the experience of service users other than distressing and alienating traumatised women??

ReeseWitherfork · 12/08/2021 08:59

Interesting that there is a relevant post from 2 years ago which got a lot less traffic. Hopefully some indication of the growing awareness. I certainly would have bat an eyelid 2 years ago. I came to mumsnet for parenting advice, am so very grateful that this conversation is also happening here else I may have been none the wiser.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3597742-Forth-Valley-Rape-Crisis-Centre

ReeseWitherfork · 12/08/2021 09:00

Wouldn't have bat an eyelid*

FindTheTruth · 12/08/2021 09:09

Rape is a crime of forced inclusivity. Do rape victims have a right to exclude men from their rape counselling? Do you believe women have a right to exclude men from their bodies and therapy or not?

Forced inclusivity in rape counselling People (such as those in the Scottish Green Party and Rape Crisis Scotland) that force women to work with a male rape counsellor do not have an understanding of the neurological, psychological, biological and social effects of mens violence. Rape victims often have a trauma-informed response to a male-bodied person and need a trauma‑informed space that is often a women-only space. Forced inclusivity in rape counselling (funded by tax payers including women tax payers), is conscription of women’s bodies and minds to validate male-born people.

Mridul Wadhwa a male born transwoman forces inclusivity as CEO of the Edinburgh rape crisis centre (ERCC) and member of Scottish Green Party, and believes women do NOT have a right to exclude men from their bodies or rape counselling.

Wadhwa laughed at a survivor while she stood up in a meeting at the Scottish Parliament to talk about how she needed single-sex spaces and sniggered and eye-rolled during a conversation about Male Violence against Women MVAW.

Wadhwa publically ponders that rape victims orgasm

Wadhwa on the Guilty Feminist Podcast insisted that “therapy is political”. The podcast didn't discuss the real effects on women, personal testimony or empathy but prioritised validating Wadhwa, and judging rape victims as prejudiced. Wadhwa said women with “discriminatory” views who sought help after being sexually assaulted would be encouraged to “reframe their trauma”. That you can educate women out of wanting a female counsellor calling them bigoted, hateful and at fault to be judged.

QUESTION FOR POLICY MAKERS
#AskRapeCrisisScotland

Male fetishist of female victimhood. Do you acknowledge that they exist? It’s not inconceivable that a male fetishist obsessed with female rape victim trauma would seek a position where they can listen in on rape survivors calls 4 times a week, think about rape victims orgasming and punish survivors for not validating them.

*Do you understand the difference between a Male fetishist and other transwomen’?Datun explains the difference here and Karen Ingala Smith Chief Executive Nia, described just some of the different groups in oral evidence to parliament:
”I am talking about risk assessments.Basically, you are askingsomebody to differentiatein terms oftransgender people who are born male and have experienced men’s violence,have managed to unpick male socialisation and the sense of male entitlement.They will come intothe refuge and not use that position toabuse women.There are transgender people born malewho genuinely experience violence but still behave in a male socialised wayand bring the trappings of that entitlement with them.There are transgender people who are born male,who are narcissistic perpetratorsand have managed to convince themselves they are the victims.We all know that male perpetrators often see themselves as victims.There are transgender people born male who are fetishists of female victimhood.Wehave delivered services orhave been accessed by malesto whom that would apply.There are alsomen who are pretending to be trans and are using a pretend trans status to trytotrack down women.It is really complicated.It is notjust a simple,straightforward risk assessment thatisfoolproof.”

Helleofabore · 12/08/2021 09:10

It is vitally important to remember that narcissistic people with their own agendas are using positions such as this to make changes to policies, to influence outcomes to their own advantage, that are not positive changes for women and children.

This person is but one. There is a growing number of people with similar attitudes and agendas.

Like the co-chair for the Green Party’s women’s group declaring victory when a move to support women’s sex based rights was over ruled.

Once you see one, the pattern is easy to find. It really is an exercise in pulling a little thread and finding the fabric unraveling.

Jorrris · 12/08/2021 09:20

This person is but one. There is a growing number of people with similar attitudes and agendas

💯

Handsoffstrikesagain · 12/08/2021 09:29

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/08/2021 09:30

In the same transcript of the Guilty Feminist interview MW says that people who call him a man ‘..can fuck right off’ (screenshot attached).

I am also rolling my eyes at the naivety and stupidity of the comment by Kemah Bob below:

"I think like the idea of men, cis men being like, a woman to access services. I mean, isn't the answer to that to make sure that men have access to services?"

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 12/08/2021 09:34

Limp
"Only one type of male insists on imposing themselves on female traumatised minds and bodies at their hour of need,"

That is very pertinent. And, as Helle says, there are many of them in politics.

My already sizeable respect for Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine and Rosie Duffield is growing - how can they tolerate being around these scumbags?

I'm so sad that Greer was right. We have no idea how much men hate us.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 12/08/2021 09:40

Actually, it's not just males.

MW is coddled in a silo that supports MW. That silo is full of females - the whole of RCS board who gave this person the job, for instance.

That goes right to my First Minister.

I think I've seen how this all ends on Channel 4 9pm, Sunday nights.