To ask if it’s normal to never feel proud of yourself or your dc?

[Waltzingkoala]

Most people I know seem to talk a lot about their dc and their own achievements and feel a genuine sense of pride.
It always makes me feel jealous, not because of the achievement but because they can feel that sort of emotion around it.
I feel really meh about anything my dc do, I just think they are normal average dc, doing normal average stuff.
I also feel that I am personally a failure. If I compare myself to most of my university peer group I am a failure, there’s no doubt. My marriage has also recently broken down so I’m a failure personally too.
It makes me feel sad that at approaching 40 I’ve never achieved anything, quite the opposite. I wonder if how I feel about myself sometimes gets projected onto my dc. My own parents were also never proud of me so I guess that might be part of it too.
If I had to do scribe myself in one word I’d say ‘failure’ or maybe ‘loser.’
I don’t think those things about my dc but I do just think 🤷🏼‍♀️ a lot of the time.
It must be nice to feel pleased about something you or your dc have done.

@5475878237NC

For those who feel this way about themselves, would you want your children to feel this way? If not, why is it Ok for you to feel like it about yourselves? It sounds so sad.

That’s a good question. Well no, I wouldn’t but I feel this way based on my adult achievements and I do think as an adult I need to take responsibility for that just as I would hope my DC would be in control of their own lives and choices as adults. I hope they would reach their potential. Also I am a parent now so it’s not about me.

I’m not sure I view it as particularly sad. I just can’t see why I would burst with pride about ordinary things. In fact I don’t feel I do anything particularly well (well maybe one thing). I usually feel like I am not good enough in pretty much everything - that is the life of a mum isn’t it? You can never be good enough. If my career was flying, perfect marriage, tidy house, confident parent then sure I would be proud. Muddling along never feeling like I am getting things right? Nope.

Hi OP, I do think you sound down on yourself. Even describing yourself as a ‘loser’. It just sounds a shame and you certainly aren’t a loser. I would recommend reading a book like ‘Confidence‘ by Katie Piper and doing the exercises. I think working on your self esteem is one of the best things you can do. There’s lots of books you could look up on Amazon and see what appeals to you. Good luck.

@DisorganisedOrganiser, you seem to be suggesting that because you’re a mother it’s normal to feel like you’re not good enough at anything, that this is the lot of any female parent? I don’t know where you’re getting that idea from. It’s certainly not true for all, and it’s a deeply unhealthy message to pass on to your children. If you don’t like stuff about your own life, change it. And whatever about your adult children taking responsibility for their own lives, it’s really not helpful to burden them with a childhood script that feeling inadequate is inevitable. And that you have to do things exceptionally in order to have healthy self-esteem.

OP you are obviously at a low point having recently separated. I’ve just turned 40 and have found it to be a very reflective time.
I suspect there are many things that you are good at or have done well but you do not acknowledge them as they were not acknowledged as a child.
I would suggest that you start by writing a list each day of things you done well. It could be little things like not getting impatient in a queue or being kind to someone.

I’m sure my kids are pretty average to everyone except me and dh. But ds is a really kind, thoughtful boy with a dry sense if humour, and dd, while not so thoughtful, is hilarious and feisty. I’m so very proud of them always.

I can’t imagine not feeling like this about my kids, and I think the way you feel about them is very much to do with the way you feel about yourself. You will achieve things every day that you should be proud of. Allow yourself to appreciate the things you do and celebrate your successes. This might make it easier for you to appreciate the qualities that your dc hold too.

I am not proud of me but I am proud of my children, they have overcome a lot in their lives and are happy, balanced, independent adults. I am also proud of my foster children they too have overcome an awful lot in their short lives. I recognise that my upbringing has impacted on my view of my sense of worth in life and I hope I did not pass that on to my kids.

@DisorganisedOrganiser, you seem to be suggesting that because you’re a mother it’s normal to feel like you’re not good enough at anything, that this is the lot of any female parent? I don’t know where you’re getting that idea from. It’s certainly not true for all, and it’s a deeply unhealthy message to pass on to your children. If you don’t like stuff about your own life, change it. And whatever about your adult children taking responsibility for their own lives, it’s really not helpful to burden them with a childhood script that feeling inadequate is inevitable. And that you have to do things exceptionally in order to have healthy self-esteem.

I agree with this. You don't have to be exceptional to be good enough and you don't have to be perfect at anything either.

The older I get the more I have come to reflect that self esteem really is one of the greatest gifts we can receive from our parents. Perhaps sad isn't the right word, but it is genuinely upsetting to read so many women here didn't get it and think it's normal to feel unworthy or inadequate in some way. I consider it to be a parental failure that you've been burdened with and wish for more for you, not just your own kids.

@Waltzingkoala

I know my dc are good kids really. Neither are a problem at school, both are doing well. Or they were before the split, will have to see if it affects them. I think I’ve read a lot about how it’s an ACE and I’m sort of waiting for them to go into a decline now. I probably am depressed but isn’t everyone right now?!

No. No in every way. Untreated depression causes us to look at everything from the worst possible angle. If you’re worried about your children after the divorce, you try some counseling with them to see how they’re doing. You don’t torture yourself “read[ing] a lot” about how it’s an adverse childhood experience and assuming they’ll decline any minute. Not everyone is depressed, no. And of those who are, many are seeking treatment because you don’t have to just live with those feelings; you deserve to be happy with the life you have, and you’ll never know how happy you could be if you’re depressed.

Maybe you’re average. Maybe your DC are average. But that’s how it works actually - the vast majority of people will be average with some who are terrible arseholes at one end and some who are super rich or uber-geniuses or selfless pioneers at the other end, and probably 98% of people between them.

You sound like:

• you had parents who did a number on you
• you suffer from imposter syndrome (more common for women)
• you may have untreated depression
• and if “koala” means you’re in Australia and dealing with lockdowns, you may be shit tired of that, too.

Make a GP your first port of call, try looking at this perhaps without the sadness. Maybe it will look the same, but maybe it won’t. and or as needed and be kind to yourself.

Well I don’t want to make the thread about me rather than the OP but yes, surely most mums don’t feel proud of themselves. I don’t understand how you can? For me to feel proud I would need to feel confident that I was a good parent, that my children behaved well, that they were happy, had friends, that they found a hobby or a sport they loved and were good at, that my house was tidy, that my career was good, that I had a great marriage, that my kids had a healthy diet, etc. That’s a pretty long list! You can’t have it all. Plus I wouldn’t want to be smug about it. The few mums I do know who seem proud of themselves exude a sort of alpha mummy smugness. I would hate to be like that even if I was proud of myself!

I find it odd to find little things in myself to be proud of. Some of these are what I would consider to be the minimum to be achieved, not something to be proud of.

@DisorganisedOrganiser

Well I don’t want to make the thread about me rather than the OP but yes, surely most mums don’t feel proud of themselves. I don’t understand how you can? For me to feel proud I would need to feel confident that I was a good parent, that my children behaved well, that they were happy, had friends, that they found a hobby or a sport they loved and were good at, that my house was tidy, that my career was good, that I had a great marriage, that my kids had a healthy diet, etc. That’s a pretty long list! You can’t have it all. Plus I wouldn’t want to be smug about it. The few mums I do know who seem proud of themselves exude a sort of alpha mummy smugness. I would hate to be like that even if I was proud of myself!

I find it odd to find little things in myself to be proud of. Some of these are what I would consider to be the minimum to be achieved, not something to be proud of.

Well, for a start I didn’t start being an entirely different human being the second I gave birth, so I’m much the same person I always was, not some hivemind type called ‘a mum’. For another, I do things that are completely unrelated to being a parent, so my sense of self-worth doesn’t rest exclusively on my child, anyway. You sound as if you’re looking for reasons to be self-critical — whether or not your children are good at their hobbies or whether your house is tidy sound insanely arbitrary. As regards your marriage, it’s not your fault if you married someone awful, surely?

My mother would agree with you that the opposite of desperately self-critical and guilty is ‘smug’, but as she has such poor self-esteem, she misinterprets ordinary self-confidence and security, particularly female self-confidence and security, as ‘that woman being full of herself’, which in her eyes is the worst sin. It’s no way to live, and it’s certainly depressing to grow up around.

I didn’t marry someone awful, we just potter along and I am not madly in love anymore. I feel I did turn into someone completely different when I gave birth. My life and my priorities are completely different.

Anyway I don’t want to derail further. Interesting to think of that with female self confidence, I would indeed hate to be full of myself. I’ll think about it.

I think the two tie into each other. Not understanding how to be proud of your own achievements or even see them as achievements effects your perception of everyone elses.

I went on a training course for mental health once and they asked us to list 5 achievements. I couldn't think of one and I remember sitting there listening to everyone else's thinking "how pathetic" because they were little things I didn't consider worthy of praise. Several years and a psychology degree later whilst my list would still be blank, I realise I was the pathetic one for having no sense of pride in anything I've ever done because it's never been good enough.

It's hard work turning it around for my kids and I'm very much into faking it but if they grow up valuing themselves, then maybe I'll finally find out what pride feels like.

@DisorganisedOrganiser

I didn’t marry someone awful, we just potter along and I am not madly in love anymore. I feel I did turn into someone completely different when I gave birth. My life and my priorities are completely different.

Anyway I don’t want to derail further. Interesting to think of that with female self confidence, I would indeed hate to be full of myself. I’ll think about it.

Best wishes, @DisorganisedOrganiser.

My point about my mother is that she thinks that the only alternative to being incredibly self-critical is to be ‘full of yourself’ — but that’s not true at all, it’s just that if, for instance, another woman orders pudding in a restaurant without loud cries of ‘Oh, I shouldn’t! I’m so fat, I’ll have to work this off tomorrow — I really shouldn’t!’ Etc etc (my mother is well within normal BMI, but you’d never know), my mother will see the person who just says ‘I’ll have the panna cotta, please’ without all the breast-beating as ‘full of herself’. Same if someone says ‘I like your hair cut’ and the person just says ‘Thank you!’

She exists in a world of (completely genuine) performative self-criticism.

I know someone like your mother and I keep such a big distance because they suck the joy out of me. I clap (sometimes literally) every time I do something in my eyes good. And, what's even worse sin, I do it to others.
Friend starting on her own business got a clap and cheer because she managed to do a nice insta post promoting her business and got good engaged. I got clap and self cheer when I got 64 in essay because that one was an absolute bitch. Or when I put flatpack together. I accept compliments without the odd dance thing of "oh, no this old thing, it's a rag, hahahahahahaHAHAHHAHAHAAHA A RAG" breakdown
I am your mother's worst nightmare😂

Mind me my parents were very critical, so were GP so I am probably in bit of an override

Really interesting to see how we think differently about some of the themes raised. For me, I don't think I'm smug (hope not) but am much more along the spectrum towards celebrating being good enough in the every day sense of the word as well as big achievements, than down towards self critical if that makes sense.

I’m a natural cheerleader, for myself directly and for others.
My kids, from what I can tell, are more than likely completely average. But my god if that isn’t something to be proud about.
Because they’re happy, they’re thriving, they’re good, kind little humans just trying to navigate their way in the world.
I cheer myself when I go a day without shouting at them, I cheer myself when I get up early and go and work out, I cheer myself when they’re in bed at a reasonable hour, I cheer them for every unfunny joke or lame dinosaur anecdote.
Because if I don’t fuel their desire to learn or be interested in the world, who will be?
Nearly every mundane thing my kids do makes me proud of them, because all I want is for them to function as happy, optimistic, we’ll adjusted humans as adults.

Do I want them to feel capable of achieving everything they’ve dreamed about? Fuck yes. Do I want them to be top of the leaderboard in everything they do? Absolutely not, because that will lead them to put far more pressure on themselves.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being average, because that’s the goal isn’t it? Regular people, with all their faults just trying to make it, and find happiness in the mundane.

Many people are absolutely afraid of being average.
I love it.

You're very young. If you want to achieve something, go for it. You can do things for yourself alongside being a parent. Lots of people train into new careers in their forties and fifties. There's a word I can't remember that means unable to get pleasure from anything. It's a symptom of depression. I'd really recommend getting treatment.

It's not normal.snd you sound depressed.

Life is about progress and everyone is moving in different direction speed.

I have disabled children I work with who may progress to being about to make eye contact for 10 seconds. That's huge for a child who we could not connect at all with before! I am proud of them little steps become great strides. Please consider therapy

I meant to append to my post by adding that even an “average” life is filled with the most amazing achievements, for you and your children.
Nobody gets to be Beyoncé (except Beyoncé) and I tell you, the pressure on her to maintain her greatness, weighs far heavier than being regular Joe.

The smallest successes are worth celebrating, like when babies learn to walk, when they read their first sentence, when they learn to swim or tie their shoe laces.

I’m successful, have an incredible but ultimately mundane life. I absolutely love it, and couldn’t have asked for anything more. Average is the new “great”!

My mother would agree with you that the opposite of desperately self-critical and guilty is ‘smug’, but as she has such poor self-esteem, she misinterprets ordinary self-confidence and security, particularly female self-confidence and security, as ‘that woman being full of herself’

That is very eye-opening. I suddenly feel like I understand a few people a lot better after reading that. Does your mother (and other people who feel this way) find it hard to be genuinely happy for other people’s successes too?

It’s such a shame there are so many people with the foundations for joyful and happy lives who are unable to realise them.

I do think you need to find stuff to celebrate in your own DC.

DS4 is great at building really imaginative duplo vehicles (a car with a slide and a solar panel and a door!). He is great at climbing - really brave and perseveres when he can’t find a route. He is very generous and wants to share things he likes with people. He knows a lot about marine life.

Or he is a normal four year old who plays with Lego, climbs on things, watches Octonauts and has been taught to share at nursery.

@TheSockMonster

My mother would agree with you that the opposite of desperately self-critical and guilty is ‘smug’, but as she has such poor self-esteem, she misinterprets ordinary self-confidence and security, particularly female self-confidence and security, as ‘that woman being full of herself’

That is very eye-opening. I suddenly feel like I understand a few people a lot better after reading that. Does your mother (and other people who feel this way) find it hard to be genuinely happy for other people’s successes too?

It’s such a shame there are so many people with the foundations for joyful and happy lives who are unable to realise them.

Glad it was illuminating! My mother would say she’s happy for other people’s successes, but in fact she really isn’t — it makes her feel excluded and rebuffed, somehow. If I phone her up in a happy mood talking about something good that’s just happened, you can hear her switch off. I have some ongoing health issues that she’s far happier to talk about.

Her self-esteem is so poor I think she deliberately (unconsciously) chooses friendships where she’s the ‘rescuer’/shoulder to cry on. The confident and happy have no ‘need’ of her, which is why, I think, she feels rebuffed by other people’s success and good luck.

She loves narratives of people enduring disappointment and bad luck through no fault of their own, I think because it makes her feel better about herself, and reinforces the soothing idea that life is a vale of tears, and everyone’s inadequate, no one is doing ok.

Unremarkable adults?! Your children will pick up on this. It’s not about people thinking their children are secret geniuses but more of a pride in their achievements for them. My daughter is doing really well with her swimming, not remarkable but good for her. I want her to know I’m proud of her efforts and I think children know if it’s genuine.

@DisorganisedOrganiser

Well I don’t want to make the thread about me rather than the OP but yes, surely most mums don’t feel proud of themselves. I don’t understand how you can? For me to feel proud I would need to feel confident that I was a good parent, that my children behaved well, that they were happy, had friends, that they found a hobby or a sport they loved and were good at, that my house was tidy, that my career was good, that I had a great marriage, that my kids had a healthy diet, etc. That’s a pretty long list! You can’t have it all. Plus I wouldn’t want to be smug about it. The few mums I do know who seem proud of themselves exude a sort of alpha mummy smugness. I would hate to be like that even if I was proud of myself!

I find it odd to find little things in myself to be proud of. Some of these are what I would consider to be the minimum to be achieved, not something to be proud of.

I am proud of myself. From your list Im ok looking and I’m overweight I’m happily married but we argue sometimes My house is lovely but messy in places My career is good but I took a step back when I had children My children aren’t perfect but I’m so proud of how hard they try

I try to be happy with my life but it isn’t perfect. Accepting that your life is great but not perfect and not comparing yourself on social media is the best thing you can do. Very sad to hear of women thinking they aren’t good enough, comparing themselves to others.