To ask Aquarium to put a radar lock on the disabled toilet

[Worrysaboutalot]

We went to a large aquarium centre today for DC2’s birthday. It was very busy with many families enjoying the centre. We had a great day out

As I am in a wheelchair, I have no choice in which bathroom I can use, I had to use the disabled toilet.

I had to wait until a mother and a couple of younger kids came out of the disabled toilet which surprised me. As it looked unlikely that any of the younger kids would need nappies.

Then I went in this was a dedicated disabled (not accessible) toilet with no baby change facilities! I do understand that the first mother might have an invisible disability, as might her children. So thought no more on it.

All the time I was in, the door handle was being rattled and I kept calling out that the toilet was occupied, which was frustrating.
When I left and an impatient mother with a pram was waiting to go in. I told her that there was no nappy changing facilities in that toilet, assuming she wanting to change the baby. But she snapped at me that she was a mother and had to use this toilet gesturing to the pram.

I felt that this second mother was just entitled and rude. Having a pram doesn’t entitle you to use a disabled toilet. Use the end toilet in the women’s bathroom, with the door open and the pram in the toilet doorway, like everyone else does.

Years ago, I had 4 kids under 6yo at one stage and I never used the disability toilets, except for the baby changing ones for baby changing purposes.

Therefore, AIBU to have asked the aquarium centre to add a radar lock to the bathroom. AS this was the ONLY disabled toilet, and the baby change facilities were separate. To increase the likelihood of ringfencing these limited facilities for those who actually need them, rather than those people who want to use them.

Wouldn’t it be marvellous if companies (particularly ones who make their money primarily from families, such as aquariums) had loos specifically designed to be for the use of parents with young children? Larger cubicle with both an adult and child sized loo and sink. Problem solved.

@clpsmum

Tbh all toilets should be disabled toilets then we wouldn't have this problem. It's disgusting the lack of facilities tbh

This

Talk to RIBA it's architects who design public buildings

it is completely unreasonable to expect someone to have the door open in a normal loo with a pram.

Isn't it just. And yet it continues to be suggested as though it's perfectly reasonable. Tbh this suggestion in the OP was the only reason I commented in the first place, it annoyed me that much!

@sofiegiraffe I'm not a childminder but years ago when I had my daughters and four of their friends (all under 7 years old) on a day out, I suddenly had to go RIGHT THEN so I basically looked around for someone to help, and saw two mums standing with a couple of children right outside the entrance to the stalls and said "please please I'm so sorry I'm Wroxie and this is (daughter's name) and her friends can you please keep an eye on them for a couple of minutes I'll be in the toilet right here, here's my handbag with all my ID and everything I'm so sorry" and barely registered their agreement before I was IN THERE. No idea why I thought I needed to give them my handbag, I think I thought if I were to drop dead in the stall they would have all the info they needed to get the kids sorted out 😹

They were both lovely and the kids were all happily playing together when I came out, thoroughly embarrassed but incredibly thankful. I just imagine some people on Mumsnet would have had police and social services involved immediately but sometimes you just have to look for people to help and hope for the best.

@TheFairyCaravan irrelevant, they are toilets designed for people who need them! As proven by the fact that most places would advise a mother and baby to use them. I asked in the supermarket this morning after reading this thread (sad I know). No sane person is going to tell a mother to leave their baby in an unsafe position, whether that be outside the cubicle or on the toilet floor.

You’re going on like people are going to set up camp in the accessible toilets and block the use for the people who you deem disabled enough to use them forever

[quote Wroxie]@sofiegiraffe I'm not a childminder but years ago when I had my daughters and four of their friends (all under 7 years old) on a day out, I suddenly had to go RIGHT THEN so I basically looked around for someone to help, and saw two mums standing with a couple of children right outside the entrance to the stalls and said "please please I'm so sorry I'm Wroxie and this is (daughter's name) and her friends can you please keep an eye on them for a couple of minutes I'll be in the toilet right here, here's my handbag with all my ID and everything I'm so sorry" and barely registered their agreement before I was IN THERE. No idea why I thought I needed to give them my handbag, I think I thought if I were to drop dead in the stall they would have all the info they needed to get the kids sorted out 😹

They were both lovely and the kids were all happily playing together when I came out, thoroughly embarrassed but incredibly thankful. I just imagine some people on Mumsnet would have had police and social services involved immediately but sometimes you just have to look for people to help and hope for the best.[/quote]

😂 the handbag part made me laugh.

@Winemewhynot
Out of interest what did the supermarket advise parents with prams to do?

@sofiegiraffe that’s what I asked, what would they suggest I do as the pram wouldn’t fit in the toilets cubicle in the ladies. He looked at me like I was crazy and said use to accessible toilet 😂

[quote Winemewhynot]@sofiegiraffe that’s what I asked, what would they suggest I do as the pram wouldn’t fit in the toilets cubicle in the ladies. He looked at me like I was crazy and said use to accessible toilet 😂[/quote]

😂
I'm going to make a point of asking places that have no obvious mother and baby toilet / changing facility, what they expect parents with prams to do. Every single place. Inspired by this thread.

@sofiegiraffe prepare to be looked at like you’re crazy, just a heads up 😂😂😂 I think it’s the obvious thing to do, and so did he give his reaction!

And if any place suggests "leave your baby unattended in the main toilets" or "leave the door open while you use the toilet", I will never go back there again. But I somehow doubt I'll be given that advice. Mostly because it's insane.

[quote Winemewhynot]@sofiegiraffe prepare to be looked at like you’re crazy, just a heads up 😂😂😂 I think it’s the obvious thing to do, and so did he give his reaction![/quote]
😂😂

[quote cricketmum84]@Innocenta I'm sorry but I don't agree at all.

A person with a hidden disability but who is still mobile would be able to use a "normal" loo if they really really had to.

I physically cannot use a normal public toilet. I cannot stand without aid and I need the handrails to get me from the loo to the chair.

A while ago me and DH visited a place that didn't have a disabled loo. He had to come with me, stand in the cubicle, physically lift me on and off the toilet and pull my knickers and trousers back up for me. For someone who has just got some independence back after some home adjustments that just felt awful.

I'm not saying that some disabilities trump others and I'm certainly not being ableist. I'm just saying that for some of us there is just no choice. [/quote]
I don't see how a disabled loo would've removed the need to have someone lift you on & off the toilet and pull your knickers up though? I'm disabled and the only thing that is different in a disabled toilet, is a handrail right next to the toilet and a couple of extra ones around the room.... With absolute respect, I don't see how a handrail would help pull your knickers up? I know some disabled loos have hoists & beds but they're very few & far between.

[quote Justrealised]@Innocenta

I'm with you partially.

Full time wheelchair users on their own would not be able to use an average cubicle. With help/support unlikely but maybe in a few cases eg a very physically small person with a strong carer or a child with a parent. Not many cases.

Part time time wheel chair users possibly as above, possibly with difficulty/ pain and risk falling/ not being able to get back to their chair.

Parents with children can at a push use a cubicle, they choose not to, it is nicity not a necessity. Using the disabled loo fulfils their needs, it's just not the intended need it's used for.

I think different disabilities do impact people differently and even within a disability different people can be differently affected. Thinking specifically about autism where you have people diagnosed who are drs and people diagnosed who require full time support.

Not all disabilities have the same impact on lives. I don't like disability top trumps but in real life not everyone who is disabled is equally as impacted by a their disability.

This thread is a kin to the bus space priority threads. Everyone knows wheelchair users should have priority over the space but irl it is used by prams and if they are asked to move they won't.[/quote]
Yes, I agree with this.

I agree completely that wheelchair users in many cases physically cannot use a standard cubicle without assistance, and other disabilities too, and this should definitely be respected.

But I also feel like it's harsh to condemn people who are using the accessible toilets because it's the only practical option for them too, such as mothers with prams.

@sofiegiraffe

it is completely unreasonable to expect someone to have the door open in a normal loo with a pram.

Isn't it just. And yet it continues to be suggested as though it's perfectly reasonable. Tbh this suggestion in the OP was the only reason I commented in the first place, it annoyed me that much!

Yeah I agree.

It's undignified and humiliating and if similar suggestions were made about how a person with disabilities could use the standard cubicle by just leaving the door wide open it would quite rightly be seen as totally unacceptable.

Thanks, @Justrealised!

I'm really shocked by the extreme hatred for wheelchair users that people are expressing in this thread. Why is it so difficult for many PPs to admit that we are a subgroup of disabled people with specific needs?

It breaks my heart that poster after poster dismissed this - a material reality - and claims that acknowledging it is just 'disability top trumps'. Or even claims that their perspective as a parent of a disabled child has equal or greater weight than that of someone like me who actually lives this experience.

My opinion has been constantly misstated and misrepresented, even though I've made it very clear that I don't support any - beyond radar keys - real-world policing of who uses a disabled loo (recognising invisible disability and other valid needs). I've affirmed this multiple times and still see false claims being made about what I've actually said.

It's just not about who uses which loo. It's about the incredible, shocking, disrespect for disabled people - especially the already marginalised group that is chair users - that has emerged in this discussion.

This thread is a kin to the bus space priority threads. Everyone knows wheelchair users should have priority over the space but irl it is used by prams and if they are asked to move they won't

Here everyone knows and accept you have to leave the bus with your pram, or fold it, if a wheelchair needs the space you are occupying. There is a sign on the wall when entering the bus and the drivers make sure it is adhered to. If the person decided to get off then they are given a ticket so they don't have to pay on the next bus they enter. I assumed it was the same everywhere

I think what some people are failing to realise is that many people with disabilities absolutely cannot and therefore, do not go out and do usual activities. In my job, I’ve come across so many people who can’t have normal lives because the toilet issue is such a huge deal. People literally can’t do normal, every day activities because life is so hard. It’s incomparable to parents with prams, just not even on the same level. There are other options for parents like me, not for some people with disabilities.

@Innocenta

Thanks, *@Justrealised*!

I'm really shocked by the extreme hatred for wheelchair users that people are expressing in this thread. Why is it so difficult for many PPs to admit that we are a subgroup of disabled people with specific needs?

It breaks my heart that poster after poster dismissed this - a material reality - and claims that acknowledging it is just 'disability top trumps'. Or even claims that their perspective as a parent of a disabled child has equal or greater weight than that of someone like me who actually lives this experience.

My opinion has been constantly misstated and misrepresented, even though I've made it very clear that I don't support any - beyond radar keys - real-world policing of who uses a disabled loo (recognising invisible disability and other valid needs). I've affirmed this multiple times and still see false claims being made about what I've actually said.

It's just not about who uses which loo. It's about the incredible, shocking, disrespect for disabled people - especially the already marginalised group that is chair users - that has emerged in this discussion.

Again, not a single person is showing hated for wheelchair users. Stop making things up.

You're being entirely unreasonable. Having 2 toddlers and a pram in tow is a big hindrance.

I'll use the suitably sized toilet, which may be also be suitable for disabled...unless the venue has a family toilet, which caters for our needs.

"Use the end cubicle with the door open"... that's such an idiotic idea 🤦🏼‍♀️

@Schuyler

I think what some people are failing to realise is that many people with disabilities absolutely cannot and therefore, do not go out and do usual activities. In my job, I’ve come across so many people who can’t have normal lives because the toilet issue is such a huge deal. People literally can’t do normal, every day activities because life is so hard. It’s incomparable to parents with prams, just not even on the same level. There are other options for parents like me, not for some people with disabilities.

What are the other options for parents with prams? Do tell, i'd love to know them.

Absolutely nobody is saying the hate wheelchair users. All people are saying is that the needs of one disabled person doesn’t trump the needs of another disabled person.

Somebody refusing to prioritise your needs over theirs isn’t expressing ‘extreme hatred.’

The problem is innocenta your comments about wheelchair users have simply shown you have a level of disregard for other disabilities and the needs that come with that. Your continuing to argue the day to day experiences of other people with disabilities and their carers does nothing to make your viewpoint look any less disablist.

I'm really shocked by the extreme hatred for wheelchair users that people are expressing in this thread. Why is it so difficult for many PPs to admit that we are a subgroup of disabled people with specific needs?

What? Not a single person has said that - and you say your think YOU are being misstated and misrepresented?! Not a single person here is showing hate for wheelchair users, not even a tiny hint of it!