To think she had this baby out of spite?

[Nineteeneightynine]

Name changed because on the off chance the woman in question uses MN i don't want her knowing who i am by my posting history.

I'll call her Sarah.

Sarah was in a relationship with 'John' and the pair had a child. After 6 years together the relationship came to an end - but during the final 2 years of the relationship Sarah had multiple terminations of unplanned pregnancies because she didn't want more children and the pair were growing apart. The split, however, was instigated by her.

They broke up and 18 months later John met and began a relationship with somebody else. They got engaged and conceived a baby.

Sarah then decided she wanted him back after all.

At this point Sarah became even more difficult (think using her existing child as a weapon)

When Johns partner was heavily pregnant Sarah orchestrated a situation whereby she and John would be alone together, think special occasion under the guise of being for their child's benefit. Alcohol was involved.

Sarah made a pass at John, and because John is a selfish idiot and wasn't getting much 'action' at home with his heavily pregnant fiance, he reciprocated and they had a one night stand. John claims Sarah told him she was on the contraceptive implant so they didn't need to use a condom. John didn't question it and was happy to proceed without.

Soon after, very soon indeed, almost as if she was waiting to test, Sarah tells John she's pregnant and wants him to get back together with her "for their family" and try again.

John doesn't want to re-enter the relationship and wants to stay with his then current partner, who was expected to give birth any day.

Sarah decides that actually 'now' (then) is the perfect time to bring another child into the world and she would be having the baby regardless. Issues ultimatums. Briefly stops contact between John and his existing child when John says he doesn't want another.

Bare in mind that before the relationship ended, Sarah was adamant she didn't want any more children and exercised her right to terminate multiple pregnancies because the time wasn't right and the relationship was failing. It was only after seeing John settling down with somebody else she changed her mind.

Johns partner found out and was understandably crushed, now years later has to co-parent and see that (yes totally innocent) child on a regular basis.

WIBU to believe that Sarah, with all of the above taken into consideration, had this child out of spite?

Saint John the Just is innocent.

I just cannot fathom why somebody would choose to bring a child into the world under such circumstances, having terminated multiple previous pregnancies

You sound like an enemy posing as a friend, with your nose deep in her business. Envy. &/or you want Saint John the Just for yourself.

Either way reasons for bringing a child into the world are nothing to do with you. It's not going to impact your life unless you choose to get all worked up about it.

You so have skin in this game.

Are you his sister? And you and your mum have been sitting having a right good bitch?

@BiBabbles

Mumsnet is such a fickle place and changes like the wind.

Because it's not a hive mind but millions of people with different thoughts.

Sarah not being "an angel" doesn't mean people are going to focus on her. It's possible spite was a factor and if posted from her POV she might have gotten torn apart (including for wasting her time with John and being the OW), but other than potential risks to the child in that, her motives doesn't change at all what has been said about John.

I feel bad for the kid - it sucks when a parent doesn't want you and it raises the risk significantly of the child being abused - and I feel bad for the new partner who was pregnant at the time for having a partner who was willing to risk her health and wellbeing to get his end away. What a disgusting thing to do to someone you're meant to love. I don't feel at all bad for John even if she did something shitty like lie about contraception. I'd be concerned about any adult who doesn't know all contraceptions have a failure rate (and being a very literal person, I tend to be more risk-averse because the stats pop up in my head on things like this, not less).

It's said those we know well are the ones who we will have the most gaps to seeing all of them because we build up a picture and continually confirm our biases around them and ignore what doesn't match. You clearly have a bias against Sarah and mixed bias around John. Unless you invented these people (and this thread has gone the way I've seen many writing threads where someone wants to make a nasty OW and people tell them how it just makes the man look worse), you can't say you absolutely know what's going on in their heads at any time. We don't know, and the only thing someone who is entirely an outsider can do is to keep an eye on the wellbeing of those involved, particularly those in this situation who are entirely innocent but will have had the worst impact.

A very fair post.

John is a pig....he doesn't deserve either woman, she used a new pregnancy to try to win him back despite being a horrible cow herself. Feel sorry for the new partner in this mess, she should dump him. Poor children used as weapons

John is a self serving arsehole who should really know better than to keep sleeping with and making babies with Sarah. Given their history and repeated abortions, it would be stupid to take Sarah's word on contraception as history shows she isn't wise enough to use it properly.

Sarah sounds like she probably did deliberately lie in order to fall pregnant.

The pair of them sound like something off Jeremy Kyle and I feel sorry for the children

history shows she isn't wise enough to use it properly.
There's nothing to suggest this. Perhaps John was meant to use condoms but put holes in them to trap her? Perhaps her contraception failed? Or perhaps they both agreed as a couple not to use anything.

Ah I see you're not John's lucky lady, but a family member. Op you're excusing John's behaviour and I suspect have done before. Maybe thays why he's a lying, cheating thunderkunt. Also, the way you speak aboit Sarah is enough to convince me that you are fairly awful yourself, no less so than Sarah.

@LolaSmiles

John is a self serving arsehole who should really know better than to keep sleeping with and making babies with Sarah. Given their history and repeated abortions, it would be stupid to take Sarah's word on contraception as history shows she isn't wise enough to use it properly.

Sarah sounds like she probably did deliberately lie in order to fall pregnant.

The pair of them sound like something off Jeremy Kyle and I feel sorry for the children

Yep this is my stance too.

The children have suffered as a result of this.

Middle child and youngest child have virtually no relationship at present despite John being present in all of their lives.

Such a rift has formed that a normal sibling relationship seems impossible, at least until the children are old enough to pursue one themselves.

@Onthebrink87

Ah I see you're not John's lucky lady, but a family member. Op you're excusing John's behaviour and I suspect have done before. Maybe thays why he's a lying, cheating thunderkunt. Also, the way you speak aboit Sarah is enough to convince me that you are fairly awful yourself, no less so than Sarah.

I'm absolutely not excusing his behaviour, he has been an absolute bastard.

I do believe she weaponised her children and probably lied about the implant though, because I have seen first hand how she behaves, which makes her a bastard too in my eyes.

I give not one toss what you think of me though.

have never suggested she should have aborted the youngest child, merely questioned why after having numerous terminations when actually circumstances were better - she would then decide to continue with that particular pregnancy when the circumstances that time were much worse

But as I said earlier, you already answered that in your OP. She continued that time because she wanted him back and thought this would make it happen! No one is condoning that, and if she posted on here to ask if she should of course she'd be told absolutely no way, it just doesn't let John off his side of the responsibility because she made that choice

Neither one of them needs to be involved in this childs life. They should leave this Sarah person to get on with it and go no contact. I agree John is an idiot and Sarah a nasty piece of work. Poor other person whose life is ruined by those two twats.

Plenty of people have ASD and LD, yet manage to avoid pregnancies. The fact John had a conversation with Sarah about contraception in the first place, means he was aware enough of the possible consequences. The implant can fail and also with a very heavily pregnant partner it seems even worse than he cheated without worrying about STI he could pass on.

Sarah could have manipulated him. Equally she could have had a huge regret from her previous terminations and, with her older child older, felt more able to deal with another newborn. Based on what you’ve said, I think John and Sarah are as bad as each other.

Sarah and John sound absolutely vile and deserve each other.
I feel very sorry for his partner and Sarah and John's children. They are all innocent and I really hope they start putting their children first otherwise those children are really going to suffer. I can't bare it when parents use their children as weapons.

But as I said earlier, you already answered that in your OP. She continued that time because she wanted him back and thought this would make it happen! No one is condoning that, and if she posted on here to ask if she should of course she'd be told absolutely no way, it just doesn't let John off his side of the responsibility because she made that choice

Yes perhaps spite wasn't the right word to use, you have phrased it better than I did.

IMO she used the pregnancy as a tool to try and win him back, when that didn't happen she then issued ultimatums and tried to withhold contact from his oldest child for a period of time.

I do agree that John holds alot of responsibility himself.

@Nineteeneightynine

But as I said earlier, you already answered that in your OP. She continued that time because she wanted him back and thought this would make it happen! No one is condoning that, and if she posted on here to ask if she should of course she'd be told absolutely no way, it just doesn't let John off his side of the responsibility because she made that choice

Yes perhaps spite wasn't the right word to use, you have phrased it better than I did.

IMO she used the pregnancy as a tool to try and win him back, when that didn't happen she then issued ultimatums and tried to withhold contact from his oldest child for a period of time.

I do agree that John holds alot of responsibility himself.

Where are you getting all your info from?

Lying about contraception , wanting him back, ultimatums, "engineering " a situation etc?

From Sarah or John?

Besides being angry , has she actually owned up to any of this?

OP: AIBU?

MN: Yes.

OP: No I'm not, and I only posted to see what you all think, and I don't care what you think.

@Wolframhart : Nineteen doesn't appear to believe that we with AS are capable of consent to sex.

OP why are people ripping into you? I don't get this place.
If Sarah did do it out of spite she is just a bit stupid, and of course it's shit for the kids involved. Although I think John should be blamed as much as Sarah and don't agree with you that it's all her fault. Even though I don't share your opinion I don't think you are evil, or John's partner. I think you are just asking for opinions and people need to chill out!

[quote SaharaFlower]@Wolframhart : Nineteen doesn't appear to believe that we with AS are capable of consent to sex.[/quote]
DH will be so disappointed. We have such a happy, mutually satisfying relationship.

I’m guessing I should stop being in charge at work and signing all those contracts too.

[quote SaharaFlower]@Wolframhart : Nineteen doesn't appear to believe that we with AS are capable of consent to sex.[/quote]
Don't be ridiculous.

I mentioned AS because people were insistent that he couldn't have possibly been manipulated about contraception.

I pointed out that he is likely to take such a declaration of contraception at face value, because he's gullible.

He's responsible for choosing to have sex.

Stop twisting things.

Where are you getting all your info from?

I’d love to know how OP knows so much about the situation if they’re not John or Sarah.

My ex tells everyone I trapped him into having children by getting pregnant. He tells people I told him I was on the pill.

These statements are lies.

I suspect John is similar.

Yes how are you privy to all this personal info?

@clarepetal

OP why are people ripping into you? I don't get this place. If Sarah did do it out of spite she is just a bit stupid, and of course it's shit for the kids involved. Although I think John should be blamed as much as Sarah and don't agree with you that it's all her fault. Even though I don't share your opinion I don't think you are evil, or John's partner. I think you are just asking for opinions and people need to chill out!

Good question!

At first they thought I was johns partner and that she was deserving of being ripped a new one, then they concluded I must be John, then Sarah's ex MIL.

When they couldn't berate me for the role I've played in the actual situation, they've taken to berating me for discussing it and having an opinion.

Something I have realised with mumsnet, specifically AIBU, is that posters just like to attack the OP for any reason at all because they want to upset them.

If Sarah was posting I'm sure they'd want to upset her too, but because I'm neither of the people mentioned in the OP I'll just have to do and have both barrels myself

I reckon the op is johns sister.