To think she had this baby out of spite?

[Nineteeneightynine]

Name changed because on the off chance the woman in question uses MN i don't want her knowing who i am by my posting history.

I'll call her Sarah.

Sarah was in a relationship with 'John' and the pair had a child. After 6 years together the relationship came to an end - but during the final 2 years of the relationship Sarah had multiple terminations of unplanned pregnancies because she didn't want more children and the pair were growing apart. The split, however, was instigated by her.

They broke up and 18 months later John met and began a relationship with somebody else. They got engaged and conceived a baby.

Sarah then decided she wanted him back after all.

At this point Sarah became even more difficult (think using her existing child as a weapon)

When Johns partner was heavily pregnant Sarah orchestrated a situation whereby she and John would be alone together, think special occasion under the guise of being for their child's benefit. Alcohol was involved.

Sarah made a pass at John, and because John is a selfish idiot and wasn't getting much 'action' at home with his heavily pregnant fiance, he reciprocated and they had a one night stand. John claims Sarah told him she was on the contraceptive implant so they didn't need to use a condom. John didn't question it and was happy to proceed without.

Soon after, very soon indeed, almost as if she was waiting to test, Sarah tells John she's pregnant and wants him to get back together with her "for their family" and try again.

John doesn't want to re-enter the relationship and wants to stay with his then current partner, who was expected to give birth any day.

Sarah decides that actually 'now' (then) is the perfect time to bring another child into the world and she would be having the baby regardless. Issues ultimatums. Briefly stops contact between John and his existing child when John says he doesn't want another.

Bare in mind that before the relationship ended, Sarah was adamant she didn't want any more children and exercised her right to terminate multiple pregnancies because the time wasn't right and the relationship was failing. It was only after seeing John settling down with somebody else she changed her mind.

Johns partner found out and was understandably crushed, now years later has to co-parent and see that (yes totally innocent) child on a regular basis.

WIBU to believe that Sarah, with all of the above taken into consideration, had this child out of spite?

@Mummyoflittledragon

I hope John is a good father to his children. What about the child with the second partner? Does he see that child? Is he with her still? And does anyone earn enough money to keep these multiple children?

He is a present father to all three but the co-parenting relationships are strained and the kids have suffered as a result.

@Nineteeneightynine

Mumsnet is such a fickle place and changes like the wind.

Based on my experience of using the site for several years, I just know for a fact that if I were Sarah and I posted about this from her POV I would be torn to shreds.

"You can't use a baby to get somebody back"

"What was you thinking"

"You clearly have no self respect"

"If I were you I would consider my options, I wouldn't bring another child into this"

Basically, whoever is posting gets flamed irrespective of their position and who they are in the situation.

I am not John, Sarah or John's partner - I am essentially an innocent bystander - yet some of you have had a good go at ripping me to shreds

But you're not Sarah and you're still assuming you know what she would have said to us.

You're a fourth party, not part of any of these relationships. And you're here because you wanted to start an online bitchfest about a woman for not terminating when your sexually incontinent brother/son/whatever used her for some relief when his pregnant partner wasn't up for it.

Sorry to disappoint you!

Not getting any at home isn’t an excuse to cheat though. He’s an idiot to believe a woman if she says she’s on contraception.

My dm worked at a holiday camp making up baby bottles and baby sitting kids in the early 60’s and the female boss told them all to ignore any fathers trying it on because the wives probably weren’t performing their marital duties so they’d be chatting the young staff up. It’s not new behaviour.

He’s an idiot to fall for it in this day & age.

His new partner would be well rid.

@FatCatThinCat

The reason I have put emphasis on Sarah duping John about contraception is because John is gullible and easy to manipulate - as a result of conditions he has. He has aspergers and mild LD's.

Sorry but that is rubbish. You cannot have Aspergers and mild LDs, it is a clinical impossibility. For an Asperger's diagnosis you have to have an IQ above 70. If it's below 70 you do not meet the criteria for Asperger's. Mild LDs is defined as having an IQ of 50-70.

He has autism, I wrote aspergers to highlight that he's 'higher functioning' if you will.

He has a full time job, kids, drives, but is still autistic.

He isn't great at reading, struggles with forms.

@Nineteeneightynine

John is a bastard of the highest order, no doubt about that.

He is totally responsible for the infidelity and not taking precautions on his side to avoid a pregnancy.

However, he was deliberately mislead into believing that there was no chance of a baby being conceived because she was on the implant.

John should have kept his dick firmly in his pants. He'd impregnated Sarah multiple times resulting in multiple terminations. What a fucked up couple they are that they didn't learn how to prevent a pregnancy well before the one night stand. The pair of them are as bad as each other. John's partner should have run a mile as soon as she found out - then she wouldn't be in a position of having to see that child.

You don’t need to read or fill in a form to use a condom

Ah right so he hasn't actually got Aspergers, you made that up to fit your narrative

Do you wonder why you're not coming across as truthful OP?

John should have kept his dick firmly in his pants. He'd impregnated Sarah multiple times resulting in multiple terminations. What a fucked up couple they are that they didn't learn how to prevent a pregnancy well before the one night stand. The pair of them are as bad as each other. John's partner should have run a mile as soon as she found out - then she wouldn't be in a position of having to see that child.

Yep she's stupid for getting involved in it all too.

You cannot have Aspergers and mild LDs, it is a clinical impossibility. For an Asperger's diagnosis you have to have an IQ above 70.

Incorrect. I have worked clinically with a number of individuals who meet the diagnostic criteria as per DSM-V for Aspergers and also have a mild LD with an IQ below 70.

Doesn’t struggle at whipping his dick out and going in bare back though does he?

He’s a grown man not a poor little naive soul.

Cheating is cheating, if this was your partner would you be ok with it because of the autism? I wouldn’t be.

John should have taken responsibility for his own contraception whatever Sarah told him.

Sarah sounds manipulative and probably kept the pregnancy in an attempt to win John back (god only knows why).

John's new parter is an idiot to have stayed with him after he cheated on her with his ex.

So yeah, they sound like a bunch of morons and they all deserve each other🤷🏻‍♀️

He has autism, I wrote aspergers to highlight that he's 'higher functioning' if you will.

Higher functioning, in relation to autism also means an IQ of over 70.

You're trying to paint him as a victim when he's not.

@Nineteeneightynine

Mumsnet is such a fickle place and changes like the wind.

Based on my experience of using the site for several years, I just know for a fact that if I were Sarah and I posted about this from her POV I would be torn to shreds.

"You can't use a baby to get somebody back"

"What was you thinking"

"You clearly have no self respect"

"If I were you I would consider my options, I wouldn't bring another child into this"

Basically, whoever is posting gets flamed irrespective of their position and who they are in the situation.

I am not John, Sarah or John's partner - I am essentially an innocent bystander - yet some of you have had a good go at ripping me to shreds

Mumsnet isn’t fickle in the sense that it’s not a single entity, if you know what I mean? Mumsnet is made up of individuals, and different individuals are replying at different times to different threads. It’s not a hive mind

Sorry that you feel bullied though. People need to remember to be kind.

My concern when it came about was actually for the children.

It's three years later and you're not one of the three adults directly involved.

Someone's motives from three years ago aren't relevant any more if the children are happy, healthy, and being parented well by Sarah, John, and the poor woman who stuck by him after he willingly cheated on her for being pregnant and not available for all the sex.

Are the children been properly cared for and parented right now?

If he didn't want a baby he should have wrapped it

It's none of your business and you sound like a judgemental prick commenting on other people's abortions. John didn't give in because he was a drunk idiot he gave in because he wanted to fuck her.

This entire story sounds very biased and jaded. You're believing a pack of lies my love. He WANTED to fuck her.

AIBU to think people like John and Sarah should be sterilised

In a different world, maybe…

Those poor kids

Isn't it possible that Sarah terminated the pregnancies as her and John's relationship was falling apart precisely because she knew they were on the verge of splitting up and thought another child was a bad idea? The point is, you don't know what motivated her, OP, yet you are being so disgustingly judgemental about what must have been a tough choice. Plus, has it not occurred to you that she might have thought, after the terminations, her chance of having a sibling for her child was gone and once pregnant again couldn't bear to get rid of it, regardless of how it was conceived? Again, the point is, you just don't know.

@sofiegiraffe

You cannot have Aspergers and mild LDs, it is a clinical impossibility. For an Asperger's diagnosis you have to have an IQ above 70.

Incorrect. I have worked clinically with a number of individuals who meet the diagnostic criteria as per DSM-V for Aspergers and also have a mild LD with an IQ below 70.

Nope. It's entirely correct. The diagnostic criteria for Asperger's requires an average or above average IQ.

The replies on this thread are the epitome of mums.

Not reading the OP's replies, making assumptions, getting things totally wrong, twisting the OP's words completely.

It's so ridiculous it's funny.

OP I hear what you're saying, and it certainly does sound very premeditated by Sarah.

www.researchgate.net/publication/8444085_Defining_the_Intellectual_Profile_of_Asperger_Syndrome_Comparison_with_High-Functioning_Autism

I dont really get what you want out of the thread op? You say you made it to gauge other peoples perspective on the situation but when they dont side with john or think he is the worst of the two you instantly jump in to drag sarah

@HurryUpAndWait23

The replies on this thread are the epitome of mums.

Not reading the OP's replies, making assumptions, getting things totally wrong, twisting the OP's words completely.

It's so ridiculous it's funny.

OP I hear what you're saying, and it certainly does sound very premeditated by Sarah.

Thank you!

I've had to laugh, they had a good go at personally attacking me despite me including absolutely no details about myself other than the fact I'm related

OP, I think the best thing you can do is have a robust conversation with John about condoms and how to use them. Otherwise you're going to have strained relationships with even more grandchildren to even more baby mamas and he won't have learned a thing.

@Nineteeneightynine

They have both behaved abysmally.

This thread came about as a result of a conversation I was just having offline, me and the other party both think there was an element of spite in having a child in those circumstances.

Oh well. Then it must be true .