To think she had this baby out of spite?

[Nineteeneightynine]

Name changed because on the off chance the woman in question uses MN i don't want her knowing who i am by my posting history.

I'll call her Sarah.

Sarah was in a relationship with 'John' and the pair had a child. After 6 years together the relationship came to an end - but during the final 2 years of the relationship Sarah had multiple terminations of unplanned pregnancies because she didn't want more children and the pair were growing apart. The split, however, was instigated by her.

They broke up and 18 months later John met and began a relationship with somebody else. They got engaged and conceived a baby.

Sarah then decided she wanted him back after all.

At this point Sarah became even more difficult (think using her existing child as a weapon)

When Johns partner was heavily pregnant Sarah orchestrated a situation whereby she and John would be alone together, think special occasion under the guise of being for their child's benefit. Alcohol was involved.

Sarah made a pass at John, and because John is a selfish idiot and wasn't getting much 'action' at home with his heavily pregnant fiance, he reciprocated and they had a one night stand. John claims Sarah told him she was on the contraceptive implant so they didn't need to use a condom. John didn't question it and was happy to proceed without.

Soon after, very soon indeed, almost as if she was waiting to test, Sarah tells John she's pregnant and wants him to get back together with her "for their family" and try again.

John doesn't want to re-enter the relationship and wants to stay with his then current partner, who was expected to give birth any day.

Sarah decides that actually 'now' (then) is the perfect time to bring another child into the world and she would be having the baby regardless. Issues ultimatums. Briefly stops contact between John and his existing child when John says he doesn't want another.

Bare in mind that before the relationship ended, Sarah was adamant she didn't want any more children and exercised her right to terminate multiple pregnancies because the time wasn't right and the relationship was failing. It was only after seeing John settling down with somebody else she changed her mind.

Johns partner found out and was understandably crushed, now years later has to co-parent and see that (yes totally innocent) child on a regular basis.

WIBU to believe that Sarah, with all of the above taken into consideration, had this child out of spite?

Do you think the plot twist is that OP is John?

@Nineteeneightynine

I'm related to John, so I also know Sarah very well. I may ask for this specific reply of mine to be deleted shortly as I don't want to out myself but want to make clear that I'm neither of the people that posters think I am.

The reason I have put emphasis on Sarah duping John about contraception is because John is gullible and easy to manipulate - as a result of conditions he has. He has aspergers and mild LD's.

Don't get me wrong he's not disabled to the extent he's not able to have relationships, work etc and be a father but he is more malleable to manipulation and I do fully believe he was manipulated to an extent.

Nope, not buying this. Either John can live a normal life and knows sex can make babies or John needs way more help than hes getting.

Stop making excuses, and it still makes no differ to the child. Who I hope never ever gets to hear about this.

@Nineteeneightynine

I can keep repeating myself if you like.

I'm not his partner.

I'm not playing at being a "concerned relative of somebody with special needs" either.

My concern when it came about was actually for the children.

He is a cheating git and there is no excusing that, but she is no angel herself.

They have both behaved appallingly.

I mentioned his AS & mild LD's because numerous posters said there was absolutely no way she duped him. I explained he was gullible and people continued to say there's no way he was manipulated.

What do you want from this thread OP?

He is a cheating git and there is no excusing that, but she is no angel herself.

If he weren't a cheating git, he wouldn't have to worry about whether the women he uses for sexual service are angels or not.

@PoppyDotx a lot of the OP's posts are pretty misogynistic so it would not surprise me to find out they were not a woman.

@Nineteeneightynine unless you are John, his partner or Sarah YABU... its absolutely none of your business! Though given the name change I expect you already know it.

I explained he was gullible and people continued to say there's no way he was manipulated.

I hate to say this OP but if you are the new partner then I think you're the gullible one in ths situation. Clearly there is still a lot of baggage between Sarah and John and now you and 3 kids are tangled up in it. I'd get out of it if I were you, but then I prefer my drama on TV not IRL.

[quote LoverOfLight]@PoppyDotx a lot of the OP's posts are pretty misogynistic so it would not surprise me to find out they were not a woman.[/quote]
Misogyny is often highly internalised though. Could be either. Woman-blaming prurience happens everywhere.

Interesting, though, that in a place that usually can't wait to hang an OW out to dry, we are getting such a strong consensus that Sarah really isn't the issue here. John really must be a special kind of knob!

@PoppyDotx

Do you think the plot twist is that OP is John?

Oooh, theres a thought!

Imnothereforthedrama

Yeah I agree the multiple terminations is most probably exaggerated. I doubt you can have multiple on the nhs ( though I’m no expert) so these would of been paid for privately. I suspect she’s had 2 max , I really think you need to stop believing John’s version of events .
Do you know Sarah personally to ask her ? If so ask her why the multiple terminations then another unplanned pregnancy after unprotected sex . I suspect you will have a different version of events .

I know someone who had 5 terminations in as many years.
You're naive if you don't think some women use them as contraception.

Of course you are right OP. Don't know why everyone is getting so tetchy

That may well be, but you are probably much more likely to take somebody at face value if they tell you matter of factly there is no risk of pregnancy because they are on contraception.

If you're a fool, sure.

This whole thing sounds like flawed human + flawed human = mess.

I think you could probably stand to be a little less interested in Sarah and her reproductive history. Is your own life that dull?

Is your own life that dull?

Do you ask that of everybody who posts to mumsnet?

@nocoffeenobooze

Imnothereforthedrama

Yeah I agree the multiple terminations is most probably exaggerated. I doubt you can have multiple on the nhs ( though I’m no expert) so these would of been paid for privately. I suspect she’s had 2 max , I really think you need to stop believing John’s version of events .
Do you know Sarah personally to ask her ? If so ask her why the multiple terminations then another unplanned pregnancy after unprotected sex . I suspect you will have a different version of events .

I know someone who had 5 terminations in as many years.
You're naive if you don't think some women use them as contraception.

Not naive at all I just think the op may have one version of events that’s all .

Is John the father?

The only innocent people here are the new gf and the children. Both John and Sarah are in the wrong. Maybe she was spiteful, but John isn’t virtuous either.

@Standrewsschool

Is John the father?

The only innocent people here are the new gf and the children. Both John and Sarah are in the wrong. Maybe she was spiteful, but John isn’t virtuous either.

I believe so, there hasn't been a DNA but he never contested the paternity and he has a relationship with the child.

However, he was deliberately mislead into believing that there was no chance of a baby being conceived because she was on the implant

1word...condoms. If he didn't want to make a baby he should have kept it covered.

Yes I think she deliberately duped him. Also he wanted to be duped / was extremely short sighted / irresponsible / selfish. Both of them are extremely unpleasant people.

I feel sorry for you for being his family member. I hope you’re not a close one. And I feel sorry for the children.

Hope his pregnant partner (at the time) has left him and now has a great life of her own?

Mumsnet is such a fickle place and changes like the wind.

Based on my experience of using the site for several years, I just know for a fact that if I were Sarah and I posted about this from her POV I would be torn to shreds.

"You can't use a baby to get somebody back"

"What was you thinking"

"You clearly have no self respect"

"If I were you I would consider my options, I wouldn't bring another child into this"

Basically, whoever is posting gets flamed irrespective of their position and who they are in the situation.

I am not John, Sarah or John's partner - I am essentially an innocent bystander - yet some of you have had a good go at ripping me to shreds

I hope John is a good father to his children. What about the child with the second partner? Does he see that child? Is he with her still? And does anyone earn enough money to keep these multiple children?

@5329871e

Yes I think she deliberately duped him. Also he wanted to be duped / was extremely short sighted / irresponsible / selfish. Both of them are extremely unpleasant people.

I feel sorry for you for being his family member. I hope you’re not a close one. And I feel sorry for the children.

Hope his pregnant partner (at the time) has left him and now has a great life of her own?

Pretty close unfortunately so I have seen the drama play out up close.

I agree with your opening paragraph.

The then-partner isn't with him anymore but there has been fallout for the children so no winners unfortunately.

In that case it has nothing to do with you OP.

Subscribe to Netflix, or get a good book.

The reason I have put emphasis on Sarah duping John about contraception is because John is gullible and easy to manipulate - as a result of conditions he has. He has aspergers and mild LD's.

Sorry but that is rubbish. You cannot have Aspergers and mild LDs, it is a clinical impossibility. For an Asperger's diagnosis you have to have an IQ above 70. If it's below 70 you do not meet the criteria for Asperger's. Mild LDs is defined as having an IQ of 50-70.

Kids are a shit load of expense and hassle. There are far less labour intensive ways to spite someone.

@Nineteeneightynine

How do you know this with such certainty? Unless you are either john or sarah, then you cannot know exactly what happened

I know her well.

My belief that she could be spiteful or manipulative isn't plucked out of thin air..

He has been an idiot, selfish, reckless, behaved atrociously and has caused alot of damage to those around him but she is definitely no angel.

But she doesn't have to be an angel. John definitely isn't and he is the only person with another commitment in this scenario. He cheated when his partner was pregnant. You have to have very low standards to attempt to defend that. Plus, take out your intimate knowledge of another woman's contraception and termination history because they are rather suspect, and this is just the usual cheating guy story - he was floating back and forwards, probably fudging when the relationship with Sarah ended, shagged her when his partner was pregnant and has to face the consequences of that. If you don't want to have to parent a child with someone, you don't have sex with them. It's as simple as that. You don't even need to discuss contraception or trusting them on the implant if you just don't have sex with them. Your attitude to John is enabling him to treat women like shit. You might want to tell him to suck it up and stop cheating around. That would be much more beneficial for him, the women in his life and the children. Rather than imagining anyone embarks on a pregnancy 'out of spite'.