To think she had this baby out of spite?

[Nineteeneightynine]

Name changed because on the off chance the woman in question uses MN i don't want her knowing who i am by my posting history.

I'll call her Sarah.

Sarah was in a relationship with 'John' and the pair had a child. After 6 years together the relationship came to an end - but during the final 2 years of the relationship Sarah had multiple terminations of unplanned pregnancies because she didn't want more children and the pair were growing apart. The split, however, was instigated by her.

They broke up and 18 months later John met and began a relationship with somebody else. They got engaged and conceived a baby.

Sarah then decided she wanted him back after all.

At this point Sarah became even more difficult (think using her existing child as a weapon)

When Johns partner was heavily pregnant Sarah orchestrated a situation whereby she and John would be alone together, think special occasion under the guise of being for their child's benefit. Alcohol was involved.

Sarah made a pass at John, and because John is a selfish idiot and wasn't getting much 'action' at home with his heavily pregnant fiance, he reciprocated and they had a one night stand. John claims Sarah told him she was on the contraceptive implant so they didn't need to use a condom. John didn't question it and was happy to proceed without.

Soon after, very soon indeed, almost as if she was waiting to test, Sarah tells John she's pregnant and wants him to get back together with her "for their family" and try again.

John doesn't want to re-enter the relationship and wants to stay with his then current partner, who was expected to give birth any day.

Sarah decides that actually 'now' (then) is the perfect time to bring another child into the world and she would be having the baby regardless. Issues ultimatums. Briefly stops contact between John and his existing child when John says he doesn't want another.

Bare in mind that before the relationship ended, Sarah was adamant she didn't want any more children and exercised her right to terminate multiple pregnancies because the time wasn't right and the relationship was failing. It was only after seeing John settling down with somebody else she changed her mind.

Johns partner found out and was understandably crushed, now years later has to co-parent and see that (yes totally innocent) child on a regular basis.

WIBU to believe that Sarah, with all of the above taken into consideration, had this child out of spite?

She was clearly not on the implant.

How can you possibly know this??

You’re must be literally making up things in your head about something that happened over 3 years ago!

@toocold54

The child is 3 years old FFS!

I’d say it’s quite weird that you are still holding on to this resentment from 3+ years ago. Surely even if John felt this way at the time he would have gotten over it by now.

Does John have contact with Sarah and the child?

I'm not holding onto resentment.

The conversation came up this afternoon, brought up by another family member, we discussed it and I came here to see what others thought.

He does have contact with Sarah and the child yes.

Anyone else think John is Neil from the inbetweeners?

@Nineteeneightynine

John is a bastard of the highest order, no doubt about that.

He is totally responsible for the infidelity and not taking precautions on his side to avoid a pregnancy.

However, he was deliberately mislead into believing that there was no chance of a baby being conceived because she was on the implant.

Only a complete fuckwit idiot would not only cheat, but not take additional precautions. Sarah of course connived to use another baby to get John back, but frankly they are as bad as each other.

I feel sorry for the two children involved and the hapless betrayed partner. (presumably you OP)

Tohim: implant = no risk of pregnancy.

So what? He still cheated on his partner and lied to her because diddums wasn't getting enough at home due to her pregnancy.

The fact that he thought he could get away with it without a child complicating things doesn't make him better!

Just because she said she was using implant, John should not believed her

What does spite mean to you?

Presumably she did it because she wanted another child and she knew he was quite stupid.

Isn't that more likely?

The conversation came up this afternoon, brought up by another family member, we discussed it and I came here to see what others thought.

Well, you know what we think. Happy now?

I think OP was the partner he cheated on....

@Nineteeneightynine

No arguments from me about what you all think about John. Grade A knob head.

I just cannot fathom why somebody would choose to bring a child into the world under such circumstances, having terminated multiple previous pregnancies because the relationship was on its way out and the timing wasn't right - only to decide she does want another baby with him after all, once he is having one with somebody else.

Of course Sarah's body is her own and she has agency to make whatever decisions she sees fit, but with the history and difficult behaviour on her part in mind, I can't help but think there was an element of spite involved in her decision making.

Maybe she didn't want a baby with him, maybe she just wanted a baby and a sibling for the existing child. If he was up for it - and it seems she had a pretty good idea he would be - it would make sense to have it with the same dad.

She sounds pretty awful but some people are. John should keep his dick in her pants and the new fiancee should have chosen someone else. It doesn't really matter if she did it out of spite...only she knows why and she isn't likely to admit it.

I missed the Asperger's bit. Presumably he knows how babies are made nonetheless.

They both sound like horrible people who deserve one another. I feel sorry for their children.

I will also keep singing this from the rooftops:

"Knowing someone well" does not mean that you know the ins and outs of peoples' relationships at all. People conceal and deflect and even without that, you simply aren't there in the thick of their relationship with them. You also, if you are John's relative, have one perspective a lot more than you have the other.

Again, unless you are Sarah, you cannot say there was no abuse or coercion. You cannot say anything about it.

Anyway, I think you have your answer. Most people including me sincerely doubt anyone would have a baby just out of spite, and even if they did, who care, the baby is born, feelings grow and change and move on and I can tell you now, this woman you are so keen on demonising is likely far more invest in her child than your mate John.

Sounds like John's partner is absolutely desperate to blame anyone but John.

Contraception is one of the few areas where women have a natural advantage.

Some people really, really don't like that.

You'd think that with 3 terminations already under their belt, John would be sensible enough to use protection.

Mm... none of the 3 come out of it well tbh.

John's new DP taking him back suggests lack of backbone, to me. As long as she remembers she chose this and can still leave. John should really keep it in his pants or use condoms if he can't. Especially with an ex, whom he knows can conceive easily and has to take at face value her word that she's on bc.

Then we come to Sarah. Before your drip feed, I thought not spite but control, bringing him back in to line. Your drip feed has rather reinforced that for me. It does not let John off the hook but does give Sarah added ease to manipulate. She may well have changed her mind about having another baby for all sorts of reasons- as is her entitlement- but John's seeming malleability may have impacted how she went about having another child.

I know someone with an "accidental" Dd and I am unconvinced by quite how accidental it actually was given the circs. I'd never say anything but I wouldn't put anything past most people now.

Also, has he such severe learning difficulties that he doesn’t understand about std’s? They can still be passed on with the implant, so when he’s cheating on his pregnant fiancée in future please do remind him to wear a condom just in case, even if the woman is on contraception.

Has John had a DNA test done?

One of my friends had a very drunken ONS with his ex wife who arrived with booze and takeaway and said she missed him (no other parties involved both were single) and a baby was conceived. 10 years later it turns out it wasn't. She already knew she was pregnant and wanted him as the father.

"Johns partner found out and was understandably crushed, now years later has to co-parent and see that (yes totally innocent) child on a regular basis."

No she doesn't that's a choice she made.

Poor defenceless John, flinging his dick around and his family members blaming anyone but him.

If the Aspergers / LD had been remotely true relevant, it would have been mentioned in the very long OP.

I can keep repeating myself if you like.

I'm not his partner.

I'm not playing at being a "concerned relative of somebody with special needs" either.

My concern when it came about was actually for the children.

He is a cheating git and there is no excusing that, but she is no angel herself.

They have both behaved appallingly.

I mentioned his AS & mild LD's because numerous posters said there was absolutely no way she duped him. I explained he was gullible and people continued to say there's no way he was manipulated.

Funny how they always have aspergers isn't it?
I have autism. I still know how babies are made and that cheating on anyone, let alone a heavily pregnant fiancee is a dick move.

@MauveMagnolia

Has John had a DNA test done?

One of my friends had a very drunken ONS with his ex wife who arrived with booze and takeaway and said she missed him (no other parties involved both were single) and a baby was conceived. 10 years later it turns out it wasn't. She already knew she was pregnant and wanted him as the father.

No DNA test done no, he never doubted the paternity.