How strict are you with your kids?

[SheABitSpicyToday]

I think I need to be stricter with my daughter, who is just turning seven. She’s become a brat and is becoming difficult to live with. I just feel like we’re constantly arguing and it’s making everyone in the house miserable.
We argue about food, chores, what we’re doing today, going to school, what she’s doing with her clothes and it’s exhausting. She literally wakes me up to start an argument and it just sets me I to a bad mood everyday and my partner too when he’s got to go to work.

She’s being so difficult and I don’t want her to feel miserable but at the same time we’re all miserable atm!

Aibu to ask how strict you are and how you manage things in the home between everyone?

@Wingingit15

Sorry OP - hope you don’t mind me asking a question to others as have similar age kids and keep wondering how people actually do discipline them. Where people are saying don’t tolerate whinging about food or shouting etc - what do you actually do to stop it?

You can't physically stop them but you can adjust your reaction to make it less likely that they do it again in future.

DD is a preteen so we're getting to the awkward independent/hormone induced behaviour and she is starting to push back again but so far it has always about boundaries, expectations, routines and following through with consequences.

DD makes her own breakfast most mornings, usually just cereal or toast, and there is always yogurt and fruit available too. Some days I will offer to make a hot breakfast - pancakes, waffles, bacon sandwich, scrambled eggs etc - but it will be a straightforward yes/no choice of one option "Would you like a bacon sandwich this morning?" If yes then she will have that, if not then she can make her own as usual.

She doesn't whine about wanting sausages instead of bacon (for example) as she knows that the offer is X or Y and no amount of whining will change that. If she starts whining she gets one warning/request to stop and if she continued then there would be a consequence applied - no TV time before school, reduced tech time that evening etc - and I would totally ignore her until she spoke to me properly.

If she asks politely then I will happily switch the bacon sandwich for a sausage one (provided it is practical, so in this case that we actually have sausages and I haven't already started cooking the bacon) which reinforces that being polite and respectful will have more chance of getting her her own way whereas whining and complaining gets nothing.

The same goes when we are out of the house - ever since DD was a toddler I have always been strict about using manners and behaviour in public. To reinforce this any time we went anywhere new I would clarify expected behaviour either before we left home or immediately when we arrived before we started any activity. We worked on one or two specific things at a time so each time we were out they were the main focus (eg saying please and thank you; no shouting; waiting patiently; sharing; using cutlery instead of hands; no whining etc). Once she mastered each of the manners we would move to the next ... so if she had mastered please/thank you and we were working on not shouting, I would gently remind her if she forgot to use please/thank you but she would only get consequences for shouting. (I hope that makes sense, it's hard to explain written down)

With young kids you have to be explicit "Don't misbehave" is too general of a direction- they don't have the mental acuity to assess every behaviour in the moment to know if it is "good" or "bad" behaviour.

So, when we went out I would give her specific instructions "Remember that when we go inside we have to use our manners. What are good manners?" "Is it good manners to shout?... No, it isn't so we are going to try and remember to speak nicely and if you shout then we will have to go home as that is not good manners. OK?" Then when we went into the place I would reinforce that - if DD was getting loud I would give her a gentle reminder and if she continued then she would get a warning. If she was still shouting then I would follow through with taking her home.

@SheABitSpicyToday

I think her going from such a perfect text book child has been such a jarring experience too. She was abnormally obedient up until 6 months ago. I’m glad she’s got some fire in her but I’m just not in the right place to handle it atm but I’m trying my best.

We’ve always been very open about feelings with eachother. I’ve always made sure of it, because due to my bipolar I can be unpredictable and I’ve always made sure she knows it’s not her fault, nothing she’s done wrong and not to worry, mums ok just this is the nature of the illness.

She’s truly the best kid I could ask for and I know I’ve come accords as defensive because I am defensive. I’m doing the best I can and she’s turned out really great considering. There’s just these few issues that I want to get a handle on before the baby is born so life is easier for all of us.

Good for you, it is very difficult with bipolar. It also sheds a bit more light on the total situation that is going on here that wasn't quite so clear before.

You have got a LOT to manage, being pregnant with HG and bipolar that is non-medicated. No wonder you are at the end of your tether and your DD is acting out.

Are you under a CMHT/psych? Are you being supported? Can you be referred to the perinatal service?

I am not bipolar, but having HG and a toddler to look after made me extremely depressed myself. I could really have done with some proper support, looking back.

I just really think you need someone to resource and support you, so that you can have the resource with your DD in this time.

@SheABitSpicyToday

Why wouldn’t I? If I had a physical illness no one bat an eye to me explaining it to her. But a mental one? It’s important for kids to know about these things.

It's not about keeping it a secret. But do you really not see how this is a bit too much for her? The house move, the new baby (no matter how much kids love and wish for one it's still a massive change), you being ill physically and mentally,the fact that you had to stop treatment for a while, the fact that she needs to understand when you go a bit wobbly because of your bipolar. It all adds up, and she's only 7 not an adult that can rationalise things and understand exactly what is happening and why.

Just something that worked for me, for the morning sickness - DH would get me an OJ and a banana for me to have before my feet hit the floor in the morning. It seemed to sort out my blood sugars, and really did seem to take the edge off. Yours might be worse, but I thought I'd suggest it.

With the one that I found a bit more challenging, I went through a phase when I was very down and negative on her, apt to latch on everything she did wrong. DH commented on this to me, and it really pulled me up short. I turned it around and worked very hard to catch her doing good, really making sure I praised what she did that was right, in a meaningful way. E.g, Honey, I really appreciate you not arguing over breakfast this morning, that was great, we had such a better morning as a result, didn't we?! Also getting little love treats, just cos - she's into science, what about a science magazine?

Also, there was no point expecting the poor kid to suddenly do everything the way I wanted it done at once. So, I tried to focus on one unacceptable behaviour at a time. And always remembering, just like you, your daughter is going through changes in life, and she's going to have days where she finds it easier, and days where she just doesn't have it in her. So try to get her into bed on a good note, every night, knowing that tomorrow is another day for both of you.

Being a Stay at Home Mum can be a God awful drag, especially if not your chosen path, but that's not your child's problem, and please don't make it so. It was still more your choice than hers, just as it was your choice to have another baby.

I hope your pregnancy gets easier, and remember, it's not forever, even though it feels it right now!

@SheABitSpicyToday

Why wouldn’t I? If I had a physical illness no one bat an eye to me explaining it to her. But a mental one? It’s important for kids to know about these things.

They would when its convinced them you’re going to die, especially when a six year old will think that their new sibling is harming their mum. You really have to try to put your brain in six year old mode.

I agree with the above. Regular chats about expected behaviours, reminders before and after, praise when she behaves well and pull her up on it when she doesn't ( including in front of friends) but pick battles and concentrate on one or two at a time.

I get too that it is disconcerting that her behaviour has changed. But a compliant perfect child is I think more cause for concern than one who is acting out!
A perfectly behaved child is a child who doesn't experience themselves as a child.
This "bad" behaviour ironically could be a good sign that things are getting reorganised for the better between you in the proper way - so that she can be a child and you the parent.

@SheABitSpicyToday

Why wouldn’t I? If I had a physical illness no one bat an eye to me explaining it to her. But a mental one? It’s important for kids to know about these things.

Yes, but she's six.

She shouldn't be expected to have to deal with all of this. It's too much for her, hence her behaviour.

Her wondering what’s going on with me would be much worse than her having a 7 year old friendly discussion on mental health. They discuss mental health at school, it’s no different to that.

Actions equal consequences for her and pick your battles. Do you need to argue every point? If you're arguing with her, she's copying and arguing with you. Don't engage with her. She does as she is asked or there is either a natural consequence or say if she doesn't do a job, she isn't allowed to do anything else until that job is done, even if it means sitting on the sofa in silence.

Mine are now 18 and 23!
They've turned out as fab young people, not quite sure if it was nurture or nature.
I think I winged it a bitand certainly not the perfect parent!
Have a look at the book in the photo attached, he also wrote a book about toddlers.

@SheABitSpicyToday

Her wondering what’s going on with me would be much worse than her having a 7 year old friendly discussion on mental health. They discuss mental health at school, it’s no different to that.

Mental health discussions at school tend to focus around less complex issues like bipolar. Plus physical illnesses in parents will also generate anxiety in a child regardless of explanations!

Yes I’m extremely depressed. I can’t take my meds until I’ve had the baby. Things will be better then and I’ve explained this to her.

So her deteriorating behaviour coincided with your pregnancy and being off your meds? Which makes a lot of sense in line with the other changes that have happened in her life and in yours.

I honestly think you’re giving her too much information - she’ll have no way to process that you’re ill and can’t take medication while you’re pregnant, and she sees how physically unwell you are - and how that stops you spending time with her - to hold in mind that things will improve when the baby gets here is a lot to ask from a 6 year old. And the baby will bring sleepless nights and stress too so things might not necessarily feel better for her for a long time.

You have a lot on your plate, but so does she with much fewer resources available to her to deal with it all. Going gently with her, picking your battles and recognising she’s expressing herself in the way she knows how (and in ways you can’t ignore) might reduce some of your dislike of her - she’s trying to have her needs met, as are you.

Yeah everything all happened at once. I found out I was pregnant the weekend we moved house.

I am not strict about things like food. We do make compromises. I can't be bothered making dinner last an hour. I am very strict on manners. So not tidying up, or answering back is not tolerated. They get a stern warning and it stops. I have hardly ever had to follow through on a warning (like being sent to their room or missing out on something).
I am fairly relaxed about clothes and things. Natural consequences like getting wet feet in the wrong shoes is fine by me.
But there are some non negotiables, like brushing teeth and suncream.

@SheABitSpicyToday

Yes I’m extremely depressed. I can’t take my meds until I’ve had the baby. Things will be better then and I’ve explained this to her.

CaN you ask about young carer support for her Family support It s a lot for 7 year old

it s hard for an adult
Navigating someone s mental health
(And same if you had physical illness she would need specific support someone to listen to her and suggest strategies)
Her behaviour reflects the situation so give her some slack
But ask for some support for her and you

@SheABitSpicyToday

We’ve tried Start charts but she seems a bit old for them now, she just thinks they’re stupid. She’s very independent and grown up for her age which I think doesn’t help. It’s very much like parenting a teenager. I’m 25 weeks pregnant and exhausted with it.

I'm gonna say this might be the issue; she isn't old for her age or 'like a teenager' or 'independent'. She's just a little kid of 6-7. You're projecting more mature behaviour on to her.

I'm just a boring old Supernanny-style mum - but it worked. State clearly the problem - "you don't hit. You don't shout." - and what will happen if it continues - "X minutes on the step/ loss of screen time or other privilege." - which gives them a chance to fix the behaviour. Mine almost always did, but if not, step or loss of privilege. When they know you'll follow through, they make good choices.

They haven't ever been 'naughty' since 5-6 years old, because they simply know what good behaviour is and feel no great urge to shout, be rude, argue or do any of those things. We all just talk normally and arrange stuff.

Dinner is placed on the table. You may eat some of it, or all of it, or none of it, but you will not ask for something different nor whine nor complain. Obviously I serve things they like. They just leave any veg or stuff that they don't. They're praised for being well-mannered. They're good eaters as they get no attention at all from being bad ones.

They do not know what a 'dunker' is so they never ask for one. Don't have crap food around the house, or ever introduce the notion one could eat them for breakfast, and they won't ask. And if they do, the answer is simply no with a reminder about the step/loss of privilege.

@SheABitSpicyToday

The other thing that’s causing issues is the interrupting when we’re talking. She will also ask us questions and then tell us we’re wrong when we answer her. She’s just very frustrating to be around atm and I’m not sure if it’s just an issue with this age or something else.

I've been reading through this thread and my daughter does some of these things especially THIS about asking questions! She doesn't do things like destroy her belongings but some of the behaviours you've mentioned are familiar. My DD is 8 so I'm reading with interest as you've had some really helpful suggestions

Yeah everything all happened at once. I found out I was pregnant the weekend we moved house.

That’s a huge amount for you to cope with, and a huge amount for her too - you’re all under a lot of stress. What supports can you draw on for her and for you so you’re able to be more emotionally and physically available to her. I know sickness is an issue but at the moment she gets herself up, chooses her clothes, sorts her own breakfast and lunch, does her own bath and puts herself to bed. These are all routine activities that provide nurture and stability - you might not manage them all but maybe pick ones that you or your DH can do with/for her, she needs adult involvement and support even if physically you think she can do them. Maybe leave a choice of clothes for her each day, pick her clothes together, make a packed lunch for her if you can’t face food when she’s eating, your DH could do a bedtime routine with her.

Once the baby comes your routines will all take another change so getting some landmarks in place for her now will give you something to work with. With so much change having the stability of adult care is important for her and you might see her behaviour change in and of itself.

It’s very hard, I’m sure you must be reeling a bit yourself too - do you have support with all you’ve got going on?

Poor kid, and you.

So much for you both to cope with, not surprising that she is playing up .

What external help do you have

She definitely would not appreciate me choosing her clothes we have very opposite tastes!

We do have a lovely evening routine it’s just not in her bedroom because her bed is a single cabin and I can’t get up there! So she reads a story to the baby in my bed so I can lie down with her and we talk about her worries etc. then she goes off to her bed.

Haven't read the whole thread, but my dd was a handful at that age, could pick an argument over nothing and a complete contrary mary, would start the second she woke up and it felt relentless. Turns out she has asd (and I'm pretty sure some pda elements too as she's very controlling and demand avoidant). Even if this isn't the case with your dd, there's no harm in trying some pda techniques to see if they help at all, especially as you've mentioned anxiety.

www.pdasociety.org.uk/life-with-pda-menu/family-life-intro/helpful-approaches-children/

I think she is just really worried and it's understandable in the situation - you have a lot going on.

I have a challenging 8 year old (she's very anxious too) and the behaviours you describe would be pretty minor here! I think that rather than suddenly becoming 'naughty', she was unusually compliant before.

House moves are massive at that age. We moved twice when I was around your daughter's age and I remember it was very distressing, although I tried to keep that from my parents. Together with the pregnancy, your illness and the pandemic, I think it would be surprising if she wasn't feeling some effects.

Hopefully the return to school will help.

I'm pretty relaxed in someways compared to DC's peers parents is they have quite a lot of independence and I'm not super strict on food or screens as it's something they both make good choices about. I am however strict on behaviour, manners and any whining and whinging. For your Dd is just remove the possibility of some of these things. Stop buying crisps, explain it's because she can't make good choices around them. Tbh if the dunkers are breadstick ones, cheeses and breadsticks are not a terrible breakfast. You could replace it with cheese triangles and a box of breadsticks. DD often has cheese, crackers and cucumber for breakfast or breadsticks, hummus and cucumber as she doesn't like cereal and toast. It's actually better than most breakfast cereals. It's a case of picking your battles here, you don't need to say no based on something not being a traditional breakfast thing if it's actually a nutritious option.

Re the clothes let her wear what she likes,, if she gets cold then that's a natural consequence. She's more than old enough to take responsibility for that. Buy longer shirts and get rid of any that can actually flash her bum cheeks (she can always have them back if she agrees to stop pulling them up, explain if it happens again once she's got them back then they go to the charity shop.

The bedroom is introduce punishments for cutting up bed covers - missing out on something happening soon or removal of screens or whatever she likes to do. That's something not to be tolerated. What motivates her? Does she like money to buy things or fidget toys? She can earn these by tidying her room even if it's not perfect, just giving it a go. With my dc I also don't let them have friends round if their room is messy so that's a motivation.

Finally she probably needs loads of love and reassurance. There is a new baby on the way and regardless of how she says feels about it she will be anxious and worried, she might not even realise it herself. Lots of 1:1 time and love, lots of praise. If she feels she's getting enough positive attention she might feel less inclined to seek it via negative (not saying she isn't getting enough but no harm to go over the top with it at times like these) by taking away the sources of conflict and again, picking your battles re clothes and sometimes food, it will be easier to do.

She likes having her independence, so am reluctant to take it away. Plus she knows that if she gets up before I do, then she needs to make her own breakfast. I’m not getting up especially early to do it when she’s capable of doing it herself

From the way she is acting I'd say she doesn't actually like her independence but says she does because she see that this is something you really value. I think you need to dial it all back, which will be hard, and start doing more of these things for her.

You don't make her breakfast/ lunch but want to tell her what she can eat for these meals - why should she listen if she is the one who is making it? You have told her she is independent but then are telling her she isn't through your, what she will see as, irrational rules around what she can have when.

She may say she doesn't want you to put her to bed but start doing it anyway. Take it in turns reading bits of her current book to each other. It is fantastic that she is reading HP but there is a lot of parental lose in those books - this could be fuelling her anxiety about you leaving her.

Just because she is capable of doing things for herself doesn't mean she needs to always do it at that age. She is 7 treat her a bit more her age.

Plus you seem to have a bit of a focus on things being inconvenient for you, I.e. getting up to make her breakfast. Really that's just part of parenting and is a more stable consistent way of showing her you care rather than loads of treats, days out etc.