If it’s that bad, why aren’t we panicking more??

[Nightgardenisodd]

Climate change.
I keep reading posts about it and it’s scaring the crap out of me for my DD’s future.
How bad is it? Anyone have any positivity about it?

@Sloth66

Look at some of the threads on mumsnet this week. Posters planning on having three, four children or more, and being cheered on. It’s clear they couldn’t care less about what is happening to the planet, and are in denial. they will continue to do what they want.

Absolutely. I am so done with being polite about it. Having so many children should be socially unacceptable. People should be made to feel uncomfortable about their choices. It’s nothing to celebrate.

@jasjas1973

The thing is it’s not want people want anymore. Growing up my bedroom had no heating, the single paned window was cracked and you could see your breath in the air, my uncle went to Spain and it was like he had visited the moon, I first went abroad aged 22. It was summer when strawberries hit the shops (PYO was a massive treat of a day out). Clothes were generally hand me downs

All of this was fine because it’s how people lived. All of this is fucking brilliant compared to the alternative

Might have seemed Green but everything made had huge environmental cost, fossil fuels used were partially burnt at low temps, waste was dumps in rivers etc and all your 'lecky came from filthy coal again poorly burnt.

Even that flight was in a plane that was hugely inefficient and he stayed in a hotel with AC powered by.... see above!

All the local growers here in the Tamar valley burnt wood then oil to heat green houses, the place stank of unburnt fuel :( sewage sprayed on the land and/or pumped into the Tamar..

Thats before we get onto lead and family cars that did 30 to the gallon.

I think you missed the point of my post though. It wasn’t that we were more environmentally friendly back then it’s what the accepted norms were back then. Imagine if we could put up with those temperatures with more environmentally friendly fuel rather than using it up to sit at 25 degrees in a t shirt. All power puts some drain on the planet. Imagine if people didn’t fly so often but the flights they did take were on very environmentally transport.

We should be using technology to improve things not as an excuse to carry on and do even more of the damaging things!

@Ibelieveinghosts

Possibly i did but the climate changes we are experiencing now are the results of what previous generations have done.

The changes ocean current because of ice melt were apparent in the 80s, caused by things we did in the 50s and 60s if not before :(

But of course i agree we need to use tech to reduce GH gasses.

I wonder what the CO2 emissions are of millions of UK holiday makers travelling around the UK, stuck in hours of queues, heating on max drying out clothing, compared to 1000s of flights to Spain etc.

@MercyBooth

Heat networks are now in developments across the UK as a key part of the sector's zero carbon drive. But residents living with these systems are facing huge bills and often weeks/months without hot water.

Sounds awful.

In all honesty I think civilisation will collapse in the coming decades. We had the chance in the 80s to address it and didn’t; 40 more years of polluting the planet. We’re past the tipping point now.

Environmental collapse has already started and we were too busy inventing smart phones and new single use plastics.

[quote jasjas1973]@Ibelieveinghosts

Possibly i did but the climate changes we are experiencing now are the results of what previous generations have done.

The changes ocean current because of ice melt were apparent in the 80s, caused by things we did in the 50s and 60s if not before :(

But of course i agree we need to use tech to reduce GH gasses.

I wonder what the CO2 emissions are of millions of UK holiday makers travelling around the UK, stuck in hours of queues, heating on max drying out clothing, compared to 1000s of flights to Spain etc.[/quote]
Absolutely, but unfortunately we can’t change the past. What we need to do now is change the present to have a better effect on tomorrow.

The amount of cars on the road is ridiculous, we need to be making better use of public transport. Subsidising the rail network so going by train is as cheap as currently going by car. It should be really expensive to go anywhere by car. People used to go on holiday on the train all the time.people used to walk miles each day, but the speed of life now doesn’t permit it.

We need to alter how we live our lives entirely so they are no longer predicated on speed and having stuff. We just fill our lives with shit.

Lockdown was an absolute blessing in this respect, I’m horrified how quickly people are back to how they were. It’s like they’ve been programmed to live a certain way by a nasty computer virus and even on a total reboot that virus has just reappeared.

Environmental collapse has already started and we were too busy inventing smart phones and new single use plastics.

The world population looks like it will peak sooner than previous predictions:World population likely to shrink after mid-century

Share of renewable energy more than doubled between 2004 and 2019 been there have been massive technolgical improvement in solar pannels , we're increasingly switching to electric cars and the infrasture is slowly catching up, there's thought and investment going on around greening flying or reducing it there's new ideas out there like Fungus packaging, household appliances are increasingly energy efficient and overall energy consuption has dropped over decades in uk there's increasing awareness around clothes
and fabic production - there's lot of technolgical and social change going on.

I do think it serious - history is littered with cilvizations that collapsed due to factors all exacerbated or caused by climate change but over pessimistic assements are as bad as someone else should make changes not me it's seeking justification to individual inertia - it's another reason why governments need to step in not only with big overviews and longterm aims but also with incentives, laws and trying to remove barries people may face that ensure green changes over the whole population are made where it will have an effect though they have a tough job balancing short term prioties and effects with long term ones.

I do agree with less cars and more public transport investment and more joined up servcies.

Though there's a "green journalist" who lives in London and writes he can't manage without a car partly due to grown children needing lifts and cats needing to be taken to vets - I don't get this I've lived all over UK small towns, cities yet we manage with pets that need to get to vets and children who need to get various locations and job that require us in at some point all without any kind of car or anyone to give us lifts.

@Cam77 where is your proof with this ?

Ironic that all those posting are on an unnecessary laptop or iphone even of for work use , being on mn using up battery and needing to charge later is all not needed
If we are going to change as people on here say that means everything cut back not just well I am a vegan so I am doing my bit
Im not an eco warrior and science always contradicts , one scientist says one thing another something else
Many of us switched to diesel due to scientists telling us it was better for the environment , now they say different

Also were people not greener years ago
Drinks came in glass bottles that people returned , gas heating didn't really exsist, cars were owned by a few, people mostly walked and worked / shopped locally bought meat from butchers , veg from greengrocers in quantity they needed and wasted very little , a joint of meat was all used up and often several meals, hardly anyone flew
These are just a few I can think of.
Yet people are saying what happening now is due to people in 50/60's etc , how when they had less and lived much simpler life's

@jasjas1973 how was it caused by people in the 50 and 60's they had much less than we do now and lived much greener life's as such ?

What do you think goes into making glass? Where did the 50s smog come from? Part of this issue is certain generations unwillingness to admit some things were done wrong after they've been dishing it out to other generations for years

I find it baffling how the environmental movement hasn’t made more out of lockdown. It’s odd to me.

I thought it would be an opportunity to demonstrate that a low carbon future is achievable. To demonstrate the positive impact on the environment of pausing activity. I’ve been actively looking for research/ commentary.

Nope. Just tumbleweed. What a lost opportunity.

Personally I blame the environmental movement for lack of action. I’ve said it before, it’s too cliquey and doesn’t have wide appeal. A bit like the Labour party!

It’s a shame because with the right leadership they could have achieved mass change. Instead they look to a teenage girl and make her a prophet.

Yet people are saying what happening now is due to people in 50/60's etc , how when they had less and lived much simpler life's

Energy consumption was still higher in UK then - mainly as technolgies like home heating electircal appliances weren't any where near as efficient but also we had a huge manafactoring base in UK - the world manfatoring is mainly done in China now hence their increase CO2 output per person.

I also think people are referencing our much longer history we've been pumping CO2 into atmospere at increasing rates since Industrial revolution (started around 1760 but acclerated in 1830s or 1840s) which started in UK and it's built up and up as we've continued to do so at ever higher amounts - it's partly an accumulation issue as well as an current output issue. It's why if we stopped producing CO2 tommorrow we'd still have problems -royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-20/

So its environmentalists fault because you want them to pretend to be right wing before you will join to prevent global catastrophe?give me strength

I do think Bluebellsinparadise you have a point - sometimes I think on mass they come across as 'Letting the Perfect Be the Enemy of the Good' but I suspect it's disparate goups with slightly different concerns and an inherant bias against "big" projects.

Plus many products that tout themseleves as "green" actually aren't better or may be worse than existing - but they sell on the small section they may be better in - www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/facts-about-food-miles

@wherearemychickens

I really don't get the 'at best we only make 1%' difference argument. I mean, all that says is it's a global problem and we are a tiny fraction of the globe. Um, yes. Even if it is 1% it's still a fuckton of carbon that we shouldn't be putting up there and we should be owning our shit. It's a moral problem not an 'I'll do it if you do it' economic one. It's looking your grandchildren in the eye and saying 'we did what we could' not 'sorry for the burnt and flooded planet you now live in, covered in plastic shit, with no wildlife left, we were waiting for everyone else to act and no one did'

Yes but collectively demanding that BP, Shell etc. change their policies would be much more effective in the longer term than obsessing about your personal carbon footprint.

@BrozTito yep they failed to reach out to the working classes, ethnic minorities, etc. They are not diverse enough and cliquey.

My knowledge is coming from those who work in the environmental movement.

They have a HUGE diversity problem. Which they are ignoring. Meanwhile big business and government has made huge progress in EDI.

So yes I do blame the environmental movement leaders for failing to achieve a mass movement. All the easy to convert have been converted.

The friends of the Earth is a case in point. Lack of female/ BAME and working class representation in their board and membership. Their EDI page was last updated in 2017 with a policy statement. No progress statements... because they haven’t made much progress!

Meanwhile big businesses left right and centre are voluntarily publishing their ethnicity pay gap reports.

It’s a disgrace actually. Leaders have been aware of the white, male, middle/upper class skew in their organisations and the membership, and they’ve done very little to address it.

Many of us switched to diesel due to scientists telling us it was better for the environment , now they say different
Not really - diesel is generally more economical so produces less CO2 for a given task. It's just that other issues of air quality rather than global warming have become more known and more important.
There's a reason Trucks and ships aren't switching to tiny petrol engines.

Walked through the park today, rubbish out of bins and loads of plastic bottles not being reused or recycled.

Also are the politicians going to trial the useless electric boilers first and be faced with high bills and lead by example

@woodhill

Walked through the park today, rubbish out of bins and loads of plastic bottles not being reused or recycled.

Also are the politicians going to trial the useless electric boilers first and be faced with high bills and lead by example

If they do it in the UK the huge bills will just be tax-free expenses claims.

You are probably right - sickening

I am really liking this thread as its amazing how much knowledge posters have and all the ideas that people have to help. This is what we need, people talking, highlighting and then we need action.

I agree with how different things were back in the 80s, less cars, less electrical appliances, less people going on holidays, more recycling of good but idont think this was done on an environment level it was because people were poorer, we nw need to change peoples thinking.

I am ashamed now at the choices i have made and wish i had been more educated about environmental issues.

But like other i have a diesel car as that was the best advice at the time, now i can in no way afford to replace it, i live rurally where there is very very little public transport so cant not drive it. Our local shops have all but one been closed and we now have no choice but to travel by car to supermarkets. On the other hand i have never flown, am vegetarian and try to keep my house As power saving as possible.