If it’s that bad, why aren’t we panicking more??

[Nightgardenisodd]

Climate change.
I keep reading posts about it and it’s scaring the crap out of me for my DD’s future.
How bad is it? Anyone have any positivity about it?

@Bluebellsinparadise upgrading our housing and industrial buildings is going to be a huge challenge and it will be those that can least afford it that will most tested by this.

@iseeu this is actually a really good example of well intended misinformation and how some journalists and campaigners get carried away.

The Guardian article is here: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/17/trawling-for-fish-release

It is thoroughly misleading.

@Daftasabroom I think your quick critique is not entirely accurate, but in any event although these reports are recent, awareness of the damage and knock on damage has been around for years, it looks as though proposals are underplaying rather than overplaying.

I think, basically, you are seeing these issues only by reference to the pie chart you posted upthread, and the situation is more complex, as it isn't just a matter of measuring the direct current emissions of sectors, you also need to look at things such as benefit and need vs emission and also the interrelationship - households need energy - overproduction of food, clothes and electrical items (for example - there are more) is not necessary - by reducing latter more leeway is given to energy usage for people...and as others have said - if the renewable energy cars and heating and regulation on use of packing for food etc etc etc (very much down to the governments) is not there, there is only so much individuals can do. I think that by just focusing on the high use of individual energy usage you are therefore being too tunnel visioned and linear. That to change how resources are used and how much is produced, ie by leadership, the overall picture changes - and this is needed urgently.

Aside from immediate emission levels, industries such as fishing have a huge effect on biodiversity etc which then has long term devastating wider effects and indirectly and directly on climate change generally - another poster has explained this better already.

Your pie chart also states that the figures you are working to are not immutable. It is also out of date from the look of it as it says there are no alternatives to certain things such as airline fuel whereas air manufacturers have talked about a suite of new aircraft using renewables and so on. It is also very general and summarised and doesn't give enough info on how calculations were made.

And apart from anything else - who wants to live in a world where the sea is acidified, only has jellyfish in it, no biodiversity above sea other than in the flying insect world, drinking water so polluted with nitrates it is no longer safe to drink....

[quote Daftasabroom]@iseeu this is actually a really good example of well intended misinformation and how some journalists and campaigners get carried away.

The Guardian article is here: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/17/trawling-for-fish-release

It is thoroughly misleading.[/quote]
The link does seem to work - but it doesn't matter - I am not getting my information from the press or campaigners, I am getting it from science reporting.

And as I said before, I think your analysis is only focusing in a very linear and one dimensional way on the pie chart you linked. The situation is far more complicated than that.

You say that the press articles are misleading, but you still haven't addressed the points I made above about the ccc extract - not that you have to, it speaks for itself .

link doesn't* seem to work

sorry - i meant your link doesn't seem to work!!

@iseeu I like the pie chart because it offers a very clear overview of a very complex subject.

If I focussed too heavily on individual energy use that wasn't my intention. My point re individuals is that too many, and there plenty upthread, claim there is no point them doing anything because government and business, or China or America, aren't doing anything. Which is untrue, they might not be doing enough and definately don't publish what they do do, but individuals will have to step up.

Re the CCC reports one of the difficulties faced by industry is that the Government policy isn't clear - we don't even have much of a roadmap of what future policy might look like beyond carbon budgets and instruments such as REACH and extended manufacturer responsibilities.

The chart is pretty current and of course it doesn't include changes that will come in the future how could it? Decarbonising aviation is incredibly challenging. But the Airbus announcement in September and projects such as FlyZero demonstrate that big business and governments are working towards a more sustainable future.

Of all human activity driving climate change the simple fact is that it is massively driven by burning fossil fuels nothing else even comes close.

@afriusaenghather well done, at least that's two of us. Do you break down your energy use into kWhr?

My vegan son gets annoyed when I tell him how much energy his shower uses.

@HasaDigaEebowai

Why can’t I buy a solid dissolvable cleaning product I rehydrate in my existing plastic spray bottle? Why isn’t 1 serve water sold in aluminium cans as standard?

You can buy both of these.

Don’t disagree with your post btw

You’re right, sorry what I meant was that you I can’t buy it as a generic rehydrate refill for standard cleaning products - it’s not the norm. The super markets are awash with plastic bottles, they should have a tiny section on first use, and 90% on second use rehydrate products. You can buy rehydrate products online from ‘specialist’ companies,

the change comes from top down policy to enforce on the big business, that then hits the supermarket shelves which by proxy changes consumer behaviour and provides education.

Sugar tax pissed me off. It’s very rare I’d buy Ribena, but once in a blue moon, I might when poorly, and now it’s full of chemical sugar. If I want to buy sugar based products, let me and I’ll pay 4 x the price if you like!

The fact the monetary policy changed so many recipes of food and drink consumables should demonstrate that change is possible very quickly and it comes from high above with a financial carrot

[quote Daftasabroom]@afriusaenghather well done, at least that's two of us. Do you break down your energy use into kWhr?

My vegan son gets annoyed when I tell him how much energy his shower uses. [/quote]
No I don’t, but I have LED lighting, a new boiler, switch of lights when I leave a room etc. I’m going to be more mindful given this thread. ‘Green’ as my energy supplier is one thing, but i don’t think its ‘that’ impactful sadly. If the government paid for ground source heat pumps and provided heating for houses via a water rate type system, we’d be streets ahead. Not like they don’t dig up the roads often enough. It’s down to pure capitalism that we don’t do this though.

my family have stopped eating meat and fish based on the impact of the global practises I’ve understood - which I believe have a significant impact on both greenhouse gases like methane and co2 production, but also by the reduction in co2 absorbers and oxygen creators by proxy of such practices - whether it be forests eradicated to grow animal food (not necessarily UK), or bottom trawling that creates co2, plus huge erosion of our micro organisms and sealife via human processes surrounding industrialised fishing. From what I understand the entire processes surrounding industrialised fishing and farming could make the biggest impactful change without stopping civilisation as we know it.

Further eating other living creatures has only led to harm to our race via cancer, mad cow disease, Ebola, covid etc… big sign there in my view.

@afriusaenghather it sounds like you and your family are doing all the right things.

I work in engineering research and probably 70% of my portfolio is focused on sustainability but the challenges we face are enormous. The motivation is now there from both Government and Business, but we lack both the technical and physical resources to do ramp up our endeavours. Most of the people I work with have higher degrees and many have PhDs. But we don't have enough people with enough experience and the technical background to go with it.

You mention heat pumps, and my wife and I were recently awarded a grant to install an air source heat pump. The issue is the installers are fully booked for the 12 months. It will take 5 to 10 years to retrain all our gas technicians and bring in the apprentices to fit them. This just a snapshot of why we can't go net zero in five or ten years.

Keep on keeping on. It is doable.

At the same time heat pumps work at a much lower temperature so the property needs to be super insulated. Not easy to achieve on row of Victorian terraces.

There are NO easy answers or quick fixes