If it’s that bad, why aren’t we panicking more??

[Nightgardenisodd]

Climate change.
I keep reading posts about it and it’s scaring the crap out of me for my DD’s future.
How bad is it? Anyone have any positivity about it?

@BrozTito well im not from that generation just think that on a people level people had less of a carbon footprint then
And everyone on here is using a phone needlessly if you want to be totally pendantic
Smog was caused by big business I guess same as a lot of co2 now .
But people blame people from the 50/ 60's for causing what we have now and I think thats wrong and a lot less was known about any damage then , but people lived a much simpler , less consumist life

Smog was caused by big business I guess same as a lot of co2 now

I think coal fires were at one time a major component of smog.

Big London smogs was it was local weather conditions and poor location of coal fired power stations www.britannica.com/event/Great-Smog-of-London - it lead to the clean air act which has improved air quality in the UK.

In cities now with smog is more usually cars exhausts, coal power power stations and industry. Moves to electric cars and fewer coal power stations should further inprove air quality.
www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/smog/

The chart I posted earlier shows that even if we'd stay at 1950 and 60 co2 emsssions we'd have taken longer to get to this point but eventually with out tech changes we'd have still ended up here - and some of that is becuase the rest of the world started to develop with associated improvements in living standards - whcih include longe rlife expectancy and less infant mortality.

This is a problem that been steadily building up for generations.

One of the ways 1950s was better was more people living closer to work but these days most people face really long communtes because housing costs are so high - so many poeople spend longer communting than in the past but not through choice - possible better public transport and more ablity to wfh will help with transport emmisions going forward.

If you find the environmental movement too cliquey I suggest following:

twitter.com/nakabuyehildaf?s=21

twitter.com/1_billiontrees?s=21

twitter.com/nafeezahmed?s=21

twitter.com/kaohua3?s=21

Once you have followed them you will be recommended more accounts like them. These are people making real changes.

If you're stuck in a bubble, you can simply pop it.

First of all there is plenty we can do as individuals. The mighty river is created by many small streams. People who says it doesn't matter if we buy bamboo toothbrushes i stead of plastic are just looking for an excuse to be lazy and ignore the problems.
Second, China is improving. their policies. They are creating more environmentally friendly power plants, they are no longer accepting plastic waste from the western world, they have put incentives in place for people to have fewer children and have put a large plan of green financing in effect.

@Fimofriend I agree, but you need to get everyone doing their bit. It’s not happening because the green movement is failing to engage lots of people. There really is very little effort to engage people beyond the white, liberal middle classes. Recent news headlines is a chance to address this. But can’t see much evidence.

I’m from a working class background. This week I’ve had 2 women (older, no qualifications both cleaners) close to me raise climate change in conversation when they have never raised it before. They want to make changes, but they don’t know what to do.

Why are the environmental groups not reaching people like them? There is no engagement with my WC community. Middle class communities maybe. Go onto the environmental group websites and they’re not attractive to people who are not well educated. Sorry but they’re written for people who read the Guardian, not the daily mail or the Sun.

Why am I the only person who cares about this on here? Do you think you’re going to achieve the change needed by failing to engage with half of the population? (based on Sun readership figure of 38 million).

@MondayYogurt I’m not in a bubble thanks and I’m well educated. But people who live around me aren’t and they are not on Twitter! Of course I can find people who are in the environmental movement who represent minority groups, but I’m talking about the failure of big environmental groups to engage with ALL groups living in modern Britain. Not just Guardian readers!

Basically my point is all the mass media gave the environmental movement a great boost this week, there was loads of coverage.

Lots of people will be thinking about the issues for the first time and want to know what they can do to help.

@Bluebellsinparadise

Basically my point is all the mass media gave the environmental movement a great boost this week, there was loads of coverage.

Lots of people will be thinking about the issues for the first time and want to know what they can do to help.

It was highlighted for a day, the following day, news moved onto A level exams.

Most people don't give a fuck about Climate destruction, they are looking forward to hols, opening up hospitality etc

But if anyone really wants change, then they need to vote differently, unless we have politicians in power that really care, then the issue will be pushed to the backburner and growth (at any cost) policies will continue unabated.

e.g. the current govt will not improve standards for insulation on new housing - an incredibly easy thing to do.

@jasjas1973 a general election is 3 years away - don’t think we’ve got that long!

A general election won't change anything for the better.

Both parties will be wary of the green agenda, it's expensive. It's not a vote winner, there is already moaning that it will cost too much for the Red/Blue wall and the traditional conservative middle class voters won't be happy to shoulder the whole cost.

It will be worse.

Most people don't give a fuck about Climate destruction, they are looking forward to hols, opening up hospitality etc

What a lovely attitude! How dismissive you are of the many people who live in the U.K. who probably have a lot of financial pressures and day to day worries that eclipse climate change. It’s a privilege to have the luxury of worrying about things other than how you’re going to pay the bills and put food on the table.

Also a lot of people can’t afford a holiday abroad or to eat out.

I am really wondering why so many people on this thread are blaming poorer nations. Have you looked at the carbon footprint of an average Indian as compared to an average British person? Even if an Indian woman has 6 children, their carbon footprint is tiny compared to Boris's 7 or 8 children.

It's absolutely tiny compared to Johnson alone!

98% of the world's wealth is concentrated in the pockets of less than 2% of the world's population - and their carbon footprint is HUGE! Not only in comparative terms, but in actual terms

Conspicuous greed - huge consumption and worse, incredible WASTE. But the entitlement of the rich is overwhelming.

And far too few of us seem to want to do anything about it.

Me saving my shower water to put on the garden is (almost literally) a drop in the ocean when it's offset against my three neighbours who use power sprays to clean the weed seedlings out of their block paving drives each week: 000's of gallons - straight down the drain.

We can't even keep our own beaches clean! The way people litter. Maybe start from the basics first

@Dreamstate

We can't even keep our own beaches clean! The way people litter. Maybe start from the basics first

Yes the littering is disgusting

Trivial. - Witnessed a woman chucking a used tissue out of her car yesterday - who does she think will pick it up.

I'm glad I don't have children is all I can say. Yet...the women in their 4x4s picking up their darlings from school half a mile away don't give a shit.
Not enough people give a shit. The world needs to stand together - but they can't/wont.

[quote Bluebellsinparadise]@MondayYogurt I’m not in a bubble thanks and I’m well educated. But people who live around me aren’t and they are not on Twitter! Of course I can find people who are in the environmental movement who represent minority groups, but I’m talking about the failure of big environmental groups to engage with ALL groups living in modern Britain. Not just Guardian readers![/quote]
Then join one and make changes.

@Fimofriend

First of all there is plenty we can do as individuals. The mighty river is created by many small streams. People who says it doesn't matter if we buy bamboo toothbrushes i stead of plastic are just looking for an excuse to be lazy and ignore the problems. Second, China is improving. their policies. They are creating more environmentally friendly power plants, they are no longer accepting plastic waste from the western world, they have put incentives in place for people to have fewer children and have put a large plan of green financing in effect.

There is nothing impactful we can do as individuals except to stop eating fish and meat and stop buying anything we can in packaging.

The climate issue is top down, but money driven politics cover their arses by pushing it to consumers.

If we didn’t fish the seas, we’d have the biggest co2 absorber going.

I don’t eat fish or meat. Do you?

The "failure" of "middle class" groups to "engage" lower classes is complex and difficult. I am from a working class background, followed the education route, have always been interested in environmental issues, and this question of how what becomes a marker of class identity frustrates me no end.

Lower class people are excluded by lack of wealth and a culture which simultaneously worships only wealth, power and greed. They also actively reject education as the preserve of wealth and having no inherent value. A culture that valued information and science more would not be in this position.

I read someone on this thread saying as people don’t wear masks, what hope do we have. What an idiot! Your mask is adding to the waste cycle we have in all likelihood and your likely moaning about it whilst heading to the supermarket to buy steak or mince in plastic packaging that used so much water and emitted so much co2. Blind as fuck to the real issues!

Seriously. If you really really give a shit about climate change, go have a little look at the general vile responses that people get when they suggest to others not to eat meat.

Farming and fishing are overnight game changers in addressing not only co2 production but also absorption

The sea has the ability to suck up all our poisonous co2, but due to industrialised fishing we as humans have completely removed this benefit. The co2 produced from cows is off the scale.

If you really care, go vegetarian. You can still drive your petrol or diesel car, you can still use your heating. It would literally remove all the co2 excess production.

Have a research.

Electric cars will be the new diesel. We need hydrogen tech, not a pretend stop gap.

Electric cars are a huge efficiency improvement on petrol, a technology we have available now, and a far better stopgap than nuclear power for instance. Electricity can be produced through renewables: even without support the industry is beginning to prove itself economically superior.

50% of all global co2 emissions are due to intensive animal farming

All those on this thread being high and mighty about others car choices etc should ensure they are aware of this if they consume meat or dairy products.

Fishing - bottom trawling causes huge levels of co2, further over fishing our seas has removed important organisms that absorb massive co2 volumes.

I’m sick of idiots not realising that half our world issues are due to animal farming and abuse.

Very little benefit will be gained by driving a Tesla in comparison to worldwide vegan or vegetarianism.

It’s a fact. That most people choose to ignore.

I don't eat meat.

Transportation is a major source of greenhouse gas emissions. That fact should not be ignored either. Much of the issue with transportation is optional to some degree or other - either due to optional travel, or optional choices about more or less efficient vehicles, or the choices made at a societal level to prioritise private over public transport for ideological reasons. Food is not optional to the same degree. Veganism is not as simple a matter environmentally as is sometimes claimed: while it would be more efficient to eat lower down the food chain, the physical land of Britain cannot produce all of the nutrition requirements that way. Vegan diets cause more food miles, and therefore involves more transportation.

Wondering how vegans would deal with more competition for their food sources from billions of other humans? How would they farm sustainably on such a massive scale and what would they do with land that currently has cows and sheep on it?

I live in a pretty coastal town and I’m constantly getting alerts that it’s not safe to swim in the water. The water company pump sewage into the sea near the bathing area. That’s just one example of why this is bad. You wouldn’t expect that this would be a thing in the UK but it is. That’s just one example of why we have to be worried about all of this stuff because we can’t trust the people running things (like water companies) to do the right/best thing. In a river near here there are almost 30!! points where sewage goes in. It’s known about and kids get sick if they swim but nothing actually gets done. If they can’t sort/stop sewage going into our water then how the heck is something more complicated like climate change going to get sorted?

Wondering how vegans would deal with more competition for their food sources from billions of other humans? How would they farm sustainably on such a massive scale and what would they do with land that currently has cows and sheep on it?

It doesn’t work like that thankfully. Cows and sheep are the biggest problem. They are fed by farmers. The food we give to them contains protein. That protein is reduced over 20 times to convert it to meat protein. That food is edible for humans (soya). So for every kg of protein provided by beef you could get 20 times the amount by humans consuming the food directly.

Same space, masses more food.