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If it’s that bad, why aren’t we panicking more??

911 replies

Nightgardenisodd · 07/08/2021 20:59

Climate change.
I keep reading posts about it and it’s scaring the crap out of me for my DD’s future.
How bad is it? Anyone have any positivity about it?

OP posts:
wherearemychickens · 11/08/2021 15:47

No, they should be waking up in super well insulated homes with very little heating requirement, that also don't overheat in summer. That needs a big investment by government in grants and loans and has potential to generate jobs.

Ibelieveinghosts · 11/08/2021 15:50

@derxa

Odd that, i seem to recall the UK was called the Dirty Man of Europe in the 70s and 80s? such was our terrible pollution, river and air quality was shockingly bad. The Thames was little more than an open sewer and industrial waste poured out into the N. Sea.Our generation used far less plastics than now but the polution we put up in the atmosphere is whats causing the changes we all see now. I can't disagree with that I should have posted on the thread about things we can do personally to help the environment. The 'sacrifices' people are talking about seem a bit laughable. I don't think people want to wake up to frost on the inside of windows, little consumer choice, no foreign travel etc.
The thing is it’s not want people want anymore. Growing up my bedroom had no heating, the single paned window was cracked and you could see your breath in the air, my uncle went to Spain and it was like he had visited the moon, I first went abroad aged 22. It was summer when strawberries hit the shops (PYO was a massive treat of a day out). Clothes were generally hand me downs.

All of this was fine because it’s how people lived. All of this is fucking brilliant compared to the alternative

jasjas1973 · 11/08/2021 18:07

The thing is it’s not want people want anymore. Growing up my bedroom had no heating, the single paned window was cracked and you could see your breath in the air, my uncle went to Spain and it was like he had visited the moon, I first went abroad aged 22. It was summer when strawberries hit the shops (PYO was a massive treat of a day out). Clothes were generally hand me downs

All of this was fine because it’s how people lived. All of this is fucking brilliant compared to the alternative

Might have seemed Green but everything made had huge environmental cost, fossil fuels used were partially burnt at low temps, waste was dumps in rivers etc and all your 'lecky came from filthy coal again poorly burnt.

Even that flight was in a plane that was hugely inefficient and he stayed in a hotel with AC powered by.... see above!

All the local growers here in the Tamar valley burnt wood then oil to heat green houses, the place stank of unburnt fuel :( sewage sprayed on the land and/or pumped into the Tamar..

Thats before we get onto lead and family cars that did 30 to the gallon.

MercyBooth · 11/08/2021 20:34

Meet the residents being failed by heat networks
INSIGHT
10.08.21
BY LUCIE HEATH
This month, Lucie Heath has uncovered problems with heat networks run by social landlords across the country. Here are their stories

Sharelines
Twitter IHLucie Heath has uncovered problems with heat networks run by social landlords across the country. Here are their stories #UKhousing
Mira* – Pembroke Park Estate

Mira lives at Pembroke Park Estate in west London with her parents and two siblings in a house rented from A2Dominion.

Her mum tops up the heating with £40 each week, but sometimes in the winter this still is not enough. The family does not use their living room during the winter and they all have electric heaters in their rooms as a back-up.

“During the first lockdown, we noticed it was really cold… my parents were concerned because they wanted us to do well in school, do well from home, but obviously have that heating provided in our house,” Mira explains.

Suzy Killip, chair of Pembroke Park Residents’ Association, says the heat network was originally supposed to be powered by eco logs, which was a planning condition when the system was built during Ken Livingstone’s tenure as mayor of London. However, the system failed almost immediately and had to be replaced with gas.

Despite the move to gas, the estate still has outages.

“During the first lockdown, we noticed it was really cold… my parents were concerned because they wanted us to do well in school, do well from home, but obviously have that heating provided in our house”

“My parents were always saying to me, ‘Had we known that this was going to be something that we would face, I don’t think we would have moved into this property,’ but of course now that we’re stuck in there, my parents are like, ‘OK, well what can we do?’” says Mira.

David Lingeman, director of property services at A2Dominion, said: “We are working hard to increase the efficiency and reliability of our heat networks at Pembroke Park Estate. We know that there have been some challenges caused by increased demand as more people have been at home over the past year, and I would like to apologise to those affected.

“We have worked with our energy partners to reduce the costs for heat network customers at Pembroke Park and will continue to follow the situation closely to see where we can make further improvements.”

*Name has been changed

Geraint McCarthy and Niall Sheridan – Myatts Field North

Geraint McCarthy and Niall Sheridan are leaseholders living at Myatts Field North Estate in Brixton (pictured top), in homes that were developed roughly five years ago as part of an estate regeneration project carried out in partnership between Lambeth Council and developer Regenter.

Residents on the mixed-tenure estate have been reporting issues with its heat network, including outages and high bills, since the first homes were connected to the system in 2013.

The leaseholders say the outages became more frequent over the winter of 2020/21, when the entire development experienced several outages.

“This is a new development. It fails me that we have a heating system that is not fit for purpose over the coldest winter that we’ve had for quite a number of years”

“This is a new development. It fails me that we have a heating system that is not fit for purpose over the coldest winter that we’ve had for quite a number of years. The system just wasn’t able to cope with the requirements of our development, and when you’ve got elderly people on low incomes and a real cross section of society, in addition to those who are simply just working from home, it’s an appalling position to be in from a major energy company that they cannot fix your heating network,” says Mr McCarthy.

E.ON, which runs the heat network, has a compensation policy which sees residents refunded £30 if they experience 24 consecutive hours of outages or four separate 12-hour outages. However, Mr Sheridan says this is not enough to cover additional electricity costs, such as to heat up bath water using a kettle or to use electric heaters. He adds that residents do not receive compensation unless they kick up a fuss.

“The main things that we’ve been trying for as a residents’ association at Myatts Field North are compensation from E.ON, improved customer service from E.ON and then finally a review by Heat Trust and/or BEIS [the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy], our MP and Lambeth of the district heating contract that’s been put in place between Lambeth and E.ON, which gives E.ON this failing monopoly,” he says.

A spokesperson for E.ON said: “We take our responsibilities incredibly seriously and do we all we can to provide the reliable and cost-effective service that customers deserve. We have experienced an increase in the number of incidents on the network from last winter – primarily due to leaks in the underground pipe network, and these works have been repaired. We’ve kept customers informed of our progress and made support available to them throughout. This has included temporary alternative heating and, in some cases, overnight accommodation to minimise disruption and keep people comfortable.

“We apologised to residents for those difficulties and paid an additional compensation to every customer at Myatts Field North for their inconvenience. We continue to host regular online meetings with customers to share the improvements we’re making on reliability of the network and improved service.”

A spokesperson for Lambeth said: “We’re aware of these issues and have been trying to resolve them in collaboration with residents and E.ON. We’re hopeful that, through continuing communication between all parties, there’s a clear proposal worked out to significantly improve customer experience.”

When Inside Housing approached Regenter, it directed us to the response from Lambeth Council.

Stephen Knight, director at Heat Trust, said: “E.ON’s Myatts Field North heat network was registered with us in 2015 and so we monitor data in relation to this network, such as complaint numbers, unplanned interruption to supply and other data. Indeed, the site has recently been undergoing an audit by our auditors. Once this is finalised, we will publish a summary of our findings to residents at the site and monitor the implementation of any remedial action required.

“While Heat Trust does not deal with individual consumer complaints, we do provide access to the Energy Ombudsman for residents that cannot resolve the matter with their supplier. The ombudsman has the power to award compensation payments to consumers and to order other actions. We are aware that the Energy Ombudsman has dealt with a number of complaints from residents at Myatts Field North over the past few years.”

Philippe Wilson – New Festival Quarter

Philippe Wilson lives at New Festival Quarter, a development in east London that was built by Bellway in 2015.

He says the heating and hot water have been unreliable since he moved in and describes purchasing his property as “the worst financial decision I’ve ever made”.

Mr Wilson estimates he will be billed more than £1,000 this year for the district heating system. His tariff was recently increased, meaning he expects his usage cost to be £400.

In addition, Mr Wilson has previously paid an annual charge of £440 on maintenance, with this cost varying depending on repairs, alongside £99 on billing, £120 on servicing of his individual heating unit, and £100 on the servicing of his own unvented cylinders.

“I worked non-stop, often two jobs, for 10 years to save up for [this flat] – I wish I hadn’t”

“I never imagined it would have been so much. You have to pay for all the maintenance in the shared system and then you have to pay for the maintenance in your flat,” he says.

Like many leaseholders experiencing issues with their heat network, Mr Wilson is also caught up in the cladding scandal. While Bellway paid for the dangerous cladding on their building to be removed, leaseholders have still been hit with other costs, most notably soaring insurance premiums.

“I worked non-stop, often two jobs, for 10 years to save up for [this flat] – I wish I hadn’t. I’ve spent endless hours contesting unreasonable charges and poor management without getting anywhere. Service charge bills rose to £3,000 in the second year. At point of sale, Bellway sold me the service charge as £1,690, which is manageable. If I knew it was going to be about £3,000 a year, I wouldn’t have continued with the purchase.”

Bellway says it is not responsible for the ongoing maintenance of the heating system and associated costs. And Encore, which took over the management of the estate last year, declined to comment.

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Add message | Report | Message poster | Quote | See allMercyBooth Tue 10-Aug-21 21:57:36
Adam Laws – Barking Riverside

Adam Laws moved into his shared ownership property at Barking Riverside, the 10,000-home development currently being developed in partnership between L&Q and Bellway, in 2019.

In January this year, his hot water failed and did not return for seven weeks. He has still not received compensation from his energy provider, L&Q Energy. In the meantime, he is still experiencing regular outages.

In a recent letter to Mr Laws’ MP, L&Q blamed the outage on the “constraints during lockdown” and “the availability of contractors attending our sites” leading to “strainers” not being cleaned within the “usual timeframe”.

In addition to his usage charge, Mr Laws is charged a daily standing charge of £1.10 to cover maintenance of the system, which he was still forced to pay during the seven weeks that he was without hot water.

“For seven weeks we had a total lack of hot water and heating because they didn’t change the filters,” he says. “Our point of view is we’re paying £1.10 as part of the service charges and you’ve not carried out a basic task.”

Despite the problems with the system, L&Q raised the daily standing charge to £1.13 in April this year.

“It doesn’t matter how bad the service is or how good the service is, and subsequently they can change the prices pretty much on a whim”

Mr Laws currently has no power to challenge these increases as he had to sign a heat supply agreement with L&Q Energy as a condition of moving into the property.

“I appreciate it’s quite a new development so there’s bound to be teething issues… but actually getting any communication from them is just impossible. The customer service is terrible and you can’t change the contract – we’re always going to be with L&Q Energy. It doesn’t matter how bad the service is or how good the service is, and subsequently they can change the prices pretty much on a whim. So I think that’s probably one of the fundamental issues.”

A spokesperson for L&Q said: “L&Q Energy operates on a not-for-profit basis, and we’re fully transparent with prospective buyers and renters about the services we provide. Residents pay a single tariff standing charge which covers our operating costs and nothing else. This is competitively benchmarked against the big six energy providers, and currently capped at £1.13 per day.

“We planned to increase the tariff in 2020, to reflect rising maintenance costs in the market, and the Retail Price Index. But we delayed this to April 2021 as part of our wider response to the coronavirus pandemic. These changes were communicated to residents.”

Lucie Gutfreund – South Kilburn

Lucie Gutfreund moved into a new build flat in South Kilburn in 2013. One of the main requirements for her new flat was that it had a bath, as Ms Gutfreund suffers from fibromyalgia and the hot water alleviates the pain.

For the first seven winters that she lived in her flat, Ms Gutfreund was plagued with hot water issues. In 2019-20, she was left without hot water for six months and without heating for two months, during which she was sick with COVID-19.

“It’s just an absolute misery, this kind of living,” she says. “The amount of money I was having to spend on taking taxis to the gym on the way to work so I could wash my hair – that was becoming insane.”

Some of the issues experienced by Ms Gutfreund have been communal, while others have been specific to her flat.

The problems in her flat were eventually solved after it was discovered that a filter had not been installed where it was supposed to be.

“Why didn’t they find that out from year one? Seven years of bloody misery because nobody has the plan, nobody cares, there’s no oversight,” she says.

“Seven years of bloody misery because nobody has the plan, nobody cares, there’s no oversight”

However, problems with the communal system returned in January this year and the development has since been connected to a temporary energy unit placed in the residents’ communal garden.

Meanwhile, Ms Gutfreund is charged roughly £1,700 per year to heat her one-bedroom flat.

An L&Q spokesperson says the system will be upgraded by the end of the summer and that the costs of these works will not be passed on via service charges.

They add: “We’re sorry that some residents have experienced outages with their heating and hot water supply. Whenever we receive reports about these issues, we seek to resolve them as quickly and effectively as we can, but we understand how disruptive and frustrating this can be.

“None of this should take away from the important work L&Q Energy does tackling fuel poverty and improving energy efficiency. Our HomeSave programme, which has just concluded, identified 4,002 households living in fuel poverty and supported them with water and energy-saving devices. Between June 2018 and March 2021, we helped these residents save £2,717,358 (or £679 per home).”

MercyBooth · 11/08/2021 20:37

Heat networks are now in developments across the UK as a key part of the sector's zero carbon drive. But residents living with these systems are facing huge bills and often weeks/months without hot water.

Sarahlou63 · 11/08/2021 21:52

What is reported in the news, no matter how dire, won't impact (the majority) of people's behaviour until it actually becomes real in their everyday lives. That will only happen with significant food shortages, caused by failing crops worldwide due to floods and heat which has a knock-on effect on meat production.

Sadly politicians only look to the next election result so they can't make the hard decisions that are absolutely needed otherwise they will lose their voices. Ho hum.

Justanotherlurker · 11/08/2021 22:28

Sadly politicians only look to the next election result so they can't make the hard decisions that are absolutely needed otherwise they will lose their voices. Ho hum.

Your simplifying the proposals that the politicians will have to try and sell the public, it is a hard sell for any politician.

It's easy for people to pass the buck online while they surf the net on the latest apple product, everyone wants others to do more whilst still holding on to their standard of life intact, nimbyism against more green policies isn't split down political lines.

Someone being an avid recycler is not going to ofset Germany ditching nuclear power to reintroduce and offset coal powered production based on a 'feel good' knee jerk reaction, just the same as the Green party still majorly anti nuclear or the nimbyism of some in the UK against a new open top mine for local steel production/hs2 etc.

Sarahlou63 · 11/08/2021 23:17

@Justanotherlurker - precisely. Politicians of any hue are fucked; explain what's really coming down the line...lose votes/lose their seats = no influence.

ethelredonagoodday · 11/08/2021 23:20

Not RTFT but, have worked in a related area for my whole career, trying to encourage people to change their behaviours, with one of the objectives being to reduce the impact on the climate. People don't want to. Until their house is flooded or burned down, they don't see the risk. This sounds harsh, but I would say applies to a v high proportion of the public.

PickUpAPepper · 11/08/2021 23:37

It's always good to hear of something hopeful, and certainly I need it when looking over environmental news, so in that spirit...

arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/most-of-the-power-sectors-emissions-come-from-a-small-minority-of-plants/
"Shutting down the worst 5 percent of this list [of power plants] would immediately wipe out about 75 percent of the carbon emissions produced by electricity generation."

PickUpAPepper · 11/08/2021 23:37

"Make it so" Smile

Balgoresboy · 11/08/2021 23:44

''Agree with others who said there's not much point in me buying a bamboo toothbrush and walking to work, when places like China and Russia are producing more and more plastic and pollution and nobody is doing anything about it.''

yes but if everybody did little things,even a million people, it makes a difference.

emilylily · 12/08/2021 00:13

@Balgoresboy

''Agree with others who said there's not much point in me buying a bamboo toothbrush and walking to work, when places like China and Russia are producing more and more plastic and pollution and nobody is doing anything about it.''

yes but if everybody did little things,even a million people, it makes a difference.

At best the whole of the UK could make less than 1% difference.

BP popularised the phrase 'Carbon footprint' as a way of shifting public attention away from limiting the activities of fossil fuel companies and onto individual responsibility. They were very successful so now we all think that switching off the lights will save the world; it won't.

Suzi888 · 12/08/2021 02:47

@Sarahlou63

Science is telling us loud and clear that the current level of pollution/warming/population is unsustainable. Humanity, in some form, will survive but in vastly reduced numbers. It's too late now to stop it.
^ this There are too many of us, we’re a plague.
wherearemychickens · 12/08/2021 06:26

I really don't get the 'at best we only make 1%' difference argument. I mean, all that says is it's a global problem and we are a tiny fraction of the globe. Um, yes. Even if it is 1% it's still a fuckton of carbon that we shouldn't be putting up there and we should be owning our shit. It's a moral problem not an 'I'll do it if you do it' economic one. It's looking your grandchildren in the eye and saying 'we did what we could' not 'sorry for the burnt and flooded planet you now live in, covered in plastic shit, with no wildlife left, we were waiting for everyone else to act and no one did'

wherearemychickens · 12/08/2021 06:27

And we are only a plague because of how we choose to live. We can choose differently!

Mousetown · 12/08/2021 06:43

There is a woman in my mumsnet birth group who, less than a year after giving birth, is pregnant with her 8th. People are falling over themselves telling her she is some kind of Wonder Woman. I think she is a selfish, ignorant idiot. I don’t even care if she reads this. Attitudes need to change.

Tumbleweed101 · 12/08/2021 06:52

I think Covid has shown that globally we could all work together if we chose to. The response to that, especially during the early stage was quite globally dramatic and I wondered then if a similar global response could be made to climate.

lannistunut · 12/08/2021 07:00

@Tumbleweed101 I thought covid showed the opposite Sad especially with not vaccinating poorer nations even though it will benefit us.

DGRossetti · 12/08/2021 07:39

[quote Sarahlou63]@Justanotherlurker - precisely. Politicians of any hue are fucked; explain what's really coming down the line...lose votes/lose their seats = no influence.[/quote]
That's how empires fall ...

Ibelieveinghosts · 12/08/2021 08:08

@Mousetown

There is a woman in my mumsnet birth group who, less than a year after giving birth, is pregnant with her 8th. People are falling over themselves telling her she is some kind of Wonder Woman. I think she is a selfish, ignorant idiot. I don’t even care if she reads this. Attitudes need to change.
Absolutely, this really gets my goat, it’s just reflective of the fact that deep down women are seen as successful of they produce lots of offspring and men are seen as successful if they manage to impregnate a woman multiple times. On the flip side it’s why single children are seen as negatively -we should be growing the tribe as much as possible.

Procreation is the single worst thing you can do for the environment-obviously it needs to happen to a level to continue the species but one child or (multiples) should be seen as the norm/ideal.

All these “whoops” baby number 7 on its way should be viewed alone the lines of “whoops just emptied 800 gallons of oil in the river”.

Nothing you ever do for the environment will compensate for the additional person you put on the planet.

Ibelieveinghosts · 12/08/2021 08:12

@DGRossetti and this materialistic ever “improving” technology driven empire is due to fall but people would rather turn a blind eye than accept the inevitable cycles of history.

Walkaround · 12/08/2021 08:41

The only reason the UK produces 1% of the carbon emissions is because we are no longer a manufacturing nation - we import stuff. It’s a lie that we are responsible for only 1%, as that would only be true if we didn’t buy almost all our manufactured goods from other countries. China is only such a big emitter because it makes stuff the rest of the world is buying from it - and not just stuff we “don’t need.” It’s bloody hypocritical to point the finger at China when a huge proportion of the stuff we are using was manufactured, at the very least in part, in China. We have also been drowning poorer countries in our plastic waste. We import goods and manufactured parts we claim to be green, because the polluting bit was largely done elsewhere, then export as much of the pollution we do create here as possible.

Sloth66 · 12/08/2021 08:43

Look at some of the threads on mumsnet this week. Posters planning on having three, four children or more, and being cheered on.
It’s clear they couldn’t care less about what is happening to the planet, and are in denial. they will continue to do what they want.