Climate change - is this a wakeup call?

[Tulipomania]

Seeing the wildfires in Greece and Turkey.

The extreme heatwave we had here in the UK. Floods in central London.

Flooding in China. More extreme heatwaves in the US.

Is anyone else as worried as I am for the future of our kids, or are we just going to carry on ignoring the warning signs until it is too late?

And for those who really must have an SUV for practical reasons, you can now get good electric versions of them.

I've been driving an EV for 6 years. There are a lot of misconceptions on here.

1. Infrastructure. Massively better than it was and getting better all the time, although not there yet.

1. Cost. 3p per mile to drive - evens out the higher capital cost especially if you drive a lot.

1. Range. My 6-year old car does 180 miles in summer, bit less in winter. I very rarely need to use a public charger because most of my journeys are much less than that. Electric cars today offer about twice that range.

1. Charging. Overnight at home, very easy. It's like plugging your phone in, you don't wait for the battery to empty first (like you would a petrol car), you start each morning with a 'full tank'. Although this is harder if you don't have off street parking.

1. Battery degradation - mine has not degraded at all after 6 years.

1. They are easy and fun to drive.

1. Save so much time never having to go into a petrol station.

@HasaDigaEebowai

There are people in here who think that only a massive suv will do in terms of safety for their children. Good luck with that argument

But that’s why education and awareness are so important. Including threads like these. We were once a two diesel large engine family and we will soon be a one ev family.

They are, but educating those people is a lost cause. People have tried on here before, showing that hatchbacks are no worse than Suvs but they will not listen.

Educating people is not a lost cause. People often aren't aware and are willing to make some changes (although generally only those that don't impact on them too much)

@Tulipomania

I know, and we don't seem to be making any progress. We have a government that is hosting the most important international climate change meeting of our lifetimes in a few months time and seems to have a totally cavalier attitude to it.

I think the average person on the street would do everything they can to help climate change. But are thwarted at every turn by big companies drive for profit.

Up until the 90s most people had things repaired when they broke down. Legislation, cost of living, minimum wage etc pushed factories to poor wage countries who can work on the pile it high sell it cheap theory. Slowly a device like a washing machine has gone from completely repairable to BER for the most simple of faults. So off to landfill it goes.

It doesn't help that we are constantly told modern appliances are so much better in energy use than a 20 year old item. If the 20 year old item works, scrapping it for a new device that has a life of 5 years because it uses less electricity kinda wipes out all the eco saving features when you take into account the CO2 produced in steel production, transportation from a factory and recycling of the old product.

Ultimately we need to stop consuming stuff. But no company on this earth will ever go for that, it would upset shareholders.
But we also need to keep consuming to help prop up things like pensions, with the ever increasing world population it's only going to ever get worse.

Anyone know of an electric car with huge headroom?

Asking for a friend. I don’t have a huge head.

Up to a point with appliances chocolateorange. It does depend on the appliance and how much you use it.

The device in the home which uses the most electricity is the fridge, because it is on all the time.

If you replace a 20-year-old fridge with a modern AAA rated one you will quickly repay the embedded carbon. And start saving money on your energy bills as well.

www.futureproofreviews.com/reviews/appliances/climate-friendly-refrigerators/

This is the sort of utter crap that companies should not be allowed to get away with.

Gillette invented the safety razor in 1904. In 1996 they acquired Duracell. Then along comes the product called fusion. Because for 92 years everyone has desperately wanted a vibrating razor handle, haven't they??

It's a massive eco disaster producing batteries for such a stupid item. What happens when they go flat. I bet s very high percentage of people just chuck the battery in the kitchen waste bin. So it'll end up in landfill leaching out its contents.

But hey at least over at Gillette sales are good.

And for those who really must have an SUV for practical reasons, you can now get good electric versions of them

Not for what our second hand SUV cost though.

I wouldn't change my way of living until the mass polluting countries do something also and it shows committment and results. Like China, and the US where practically everyone over the age of 16 drives a car and they will not give that up for anyone any time soon! And so on

Yesterday's Guardian carried a piece about the impact of methane on global warming. It said that the biggest factor was poor practices in oil and gas extraction, and that the worst offender in not preventing methane emission in the extraction process was Russia. UK and EU are both big purchasers of Russian oil and gas.

I'd happily pay more for my gas if it came from non-Russian sources, but how the hell could I find out?

Yanbu and a few years ago i was concerned about it...now i kind of give up. What a strange world we live in...as a species we don't deserve this amazing planet.

one of the best things we can do - as touched on upthread - is look at where our money is invested. What are our pensions, ISAs etc supporting?

Aviva have an ethical/green fund that you can put your pension money in. I had some funds with Aviva, got it all put in the ethical fund and it outperformed all the others for the time it was invested (2000-2015).

Minimizing use of gas is the most immediate thing you can do. Make sure the home is as well insulated and draft proofed as possible. Have your energy on a renewables tariff, and use electricity over gas where you can, for example to boil water.

Ecotricity are building a green gas plant powered by grass clippings. www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-green-energy/green-gas

If you need a car get an electric one but ideally only when your current vehicle is at the end of its life - otherwise the carbon involved in making the vehicle has been wasted since an awful lot of cars are scrapped

And if you drive an older petrol car, check if it's E10 compliant. Using E10 fuel in a car that isn't will knacker it eventually, then you'll have to scrap it!

I was warned about this by my garage, who went on to tell me that cars that are E10 compliant will generally use around 2% more of the E10 fuel than they would if they were using E5, so it makes you wonder how big the net gain from the switch will be.

It's got to be a structural solution. In the same way banning CFCs in 90's helped with the ozone layer. Change is happening, but first you need the laws in place that will rewrite the companies policies that in turn gets results on the ground.

It's not just electric cars and soy burgers, although it helps. It's the way we heat our homes, the emissions from aviation and shipping and finding an alternative for heavy industry. The best things we can do as individuals is to pressure our elected officials to pass the right laws and ensure our pensions or savings are not funding destructive growth.

I am not at the point of despair, just yet. I do think we will need to adapt and we are facing massive disruption. I also think with China, the EU and the USA on-board, we have a chance to avoid the worst effects. I wish I could add Australia or Brazil to that list as well, but we will have to see.

I agree with a previous poster. Find the things you can do.

Eg my disabled child needs taking to school by car but I can do other stuff.

Eg, we eat mainly vegetarian/vegan. Don't have a dryer, use very little heat, don't go abroad (tho that's because it is too much hassle) We need to find more things to reduce our footprint.

I am going to try clearing out junk email.
Getting all the extra stuff out of the car.
Drive more smoothly and not so fast on the motorway.
Try to boil only the water I need in a kettle.

Obviously mankind is contributing but the most poignant question is what will the consequences be?

The IPCC are unable to predict due to the number of variables for all predictions (1.5-4 degrees by 2100) and some of the hysteria from activists and media are nonsensical.

Remember there have been five ELE's, Extinction Level Events, on our planet already, this isn't one and, as mentioned above, our star will run out of hydrogen causing it to expand into a red giant engulfing the inner planets before collapsing into a white dwarf.

A few billion years to go for that though so even if our species was still around, after such a length of time we would have evolved into something beyond our comprehension.

Be well.

@BlackeyedSusan

I agree with a previous poster. Find the things you can do.

Eg my disabled child needs taking to school by car but I can do other stuff.

Eg, we eat mainly vegetarian/vegan. Don't have a dryer, use very little heat, don't go abroad (tho that's because it is too much hassle) We need to find more things to reduce our footprint.

I am going to try clearing out junk email.
Getting all the extra stuff out of the car.
Drive more smoothly and not so fast on the motorway.
Try to boil only the water I need in a kettle.

I agree this flexibility is key because everyone’s circumstances are different and if we all do what we can reasonably do, it’s better than doing nothing whilst we are pushing policy makers to catch up.

Giving up flying entirely is perfectly feasible for me but not if the majority of your family live overseas for example. My friend in this position is vegetarian and does lots of other things to make her life more sustainable, but she needs to visit family every few years.

I can’t afford to replace my car with an electric one so I just use it as little as possible and walk / cycle more. Upside is I am definitely fitter and slimmer!

I can’t afford to rip out and replace a newish gas boiler so I have insulated my house really well - the upside is that not only are my winter bills now cheap, it is cool to live in the house during heat waves. Best £500 I ever spent.

''On a positive note, the sun is a star, all stars eventually explode, so perhaps we won't be around to feel the full effects of climate change as the world will be no more by then.''

no it won't explode, it will burn out its gasses and basically switch off. The problem is that this isn't predicted until much longer after the climate change begins.

@Tulipomania

I've been driving an EV for 6 years. There are a lot of misconceptions on here.

1. Infrastructure. Massively better than it was and getting better all the time, although not there yet.

1. Cost. 3p per mile to drive - evens out the higher capital cost especially if you drive a lot.

1. Range. My 6-year old car does 180 miles in summer, bit less in winter. I very rarely need to use a public charger because most of my journeys are much less than that. Electric cars today offer about twice that range.

1. Charging. Overnight at home, very easy. It's like plugging your phone in, you don't wait for the battery to empty first (like you would a petrol car), you start each morning with a 'full tank'. Although this is harder if you don't have off street parking.

1. Battery degradation - mine has not degraded at all after 6 years.

1. They are easy and fun to drive.

1. Save so much time never having to go into a petrol station.

It isn't really 0.3p per mile though.

For an example, I looked at Shell's website and found that they charge 41p per kWh. I did this because, like many people, I don't have a driveway which means I can't charge at home.

I'm going to assume that there is competition in the EV charging market and so prices will be comparable across suppliers.

The Tesla Model 3 seems to get 4.4 miles per kWh which brings fuel cost in at just over 9p per mile - a saving of 5p per mile (£20 per month) vs my current diesel car.

Ongoing TCO will be cheaper because no engine and fewer moving parts, but to what extent is this balanced out by the increased cost of tyres (Tesla having bigger tyres than "normal" cars).

I certainly agree that if someone's current car has reached the point of being replaced then EV might be the way to go (assuming it is cost neutral or close to it compared to petrol/diesel) but if someone's car is good to continue running (which to be fair, a lot of cars are when they reach the end of the finance period) then the financial benefits are questionable even if there are proven benefits in terms of saving the planet.

Nah, people will keep popping out kids who will suffer the consequences. I'm just glad I don't have any and I'll be dead and gone before it gets really bad.

Regarding EV cars, in order to be fully on point, you would need to find out where and how the electricity is generated to run the car surely?

Maybe electricity generation is fully green though.

Electricity generation is currently 42% renewables, which is a huge increase from 10% just 10 years ago.

But you can sign up to a green tariff, from suppliers like Octopus and Pure Planet, which is 100% renewable. Octopus also has a tariff designed for EV owners which is cheaper if you charge the car off peak.

Scottish83 I said 3p, not 0.3p!

Of course, if you cannot charge at home it will cost you more. But still cheaper than petrol/diesel.

There is still quite a lot of variation between charging on the road. You pay more for the convenience of a rapid charger than a slow charger, for example. If you can charge your car slowly overnight it will be less.

DH is travelling at the moment and just paid £4.68 to get enough charge for about 60 miles, on a fast charger.