Climate change - is this a wakeup call?

[Tulipomania]

Seeing the wildfires in Greece and Turkey.

The extreme heatwave we had here in the UK. Floods in central London.

Flooding in China. More extreme heatwaves in the US.

Is anyone else as worried as I am for the future of our kids, or are we just going to carry on ignoring the warning signs until it is too late?

@MoreRainThanAnyYet

If flying people round the world and buttering them up with posh hotels is what it takes to get climate agreements, that’s a worthwhile flight and hotel bill.

They have been doing it for years and not any closer.

Years ago face to face meetings might have been the only way but modern technology means it is no longer necessary. Should our world leaders not be leading by example?
Should they not be showing a commitment to change rather than just saying meaningless words?

we need countries like China, India, Saudi Arabia and Brazil on board, all of which have showed a reluctance to make change.

And why should they change? In the West we’ve enjoyed the luxuries and spoils which have arisen from cheap fossil energy, corporate irresponsibility and industrial farming for several generations - and yet now, just as people in the developing world are beginning to get a taste for and enough money to enjoy those things too, we want to tell them how irresponsible they’re being and they need to think of the planet and cut back on their consumption. I don’t think it’s at all surprising that we’re getting pushback from other governments and their populations on this.

And yet the outrage from people who have been asked not to go abroad on holiday for one year in the middle of a global pandemic! 🤷‍♀️

We're screwed!

I think it’s quite well established that small, individual actions have virtually no impact. At best they might raise awareness: at worse they are a total distraction from the actions of the oil and gas companies (and are in fact a tool they actively use to divert attention from their actions and to divide us). You can do every green thing in the book - and you still have no impact on climate warming.

Voting and campaigning are the actions that will have an impact. But who’s going to vote for the party that promises to reduce their quality of life, to restrict choice and limit our ambitions ?

If flying people round the world and buttering them up with posh hotels is what it takes to get climate agreements, that’s a worthwhile flight and hotel bill.

Really? All I see is double standards

Really? All I see is double standards

… and while we are distracted by criticising these “double standards” (which are really just the consequences of living and operating in the society we currently have) the oil and gas companies carry on doing their thing, safe in the knowledge that our attention is not focused on them. Ditto if we’re busy calculating our personal carbon footprints (popularised by British Petroleum - more distraction and individual shouldering of blame) and trying to reduce it (pointless and doesn’t make any difference, but makes us feel like we are a. culpable and b. doing something significant).

Micheal Mann’s book The New Climate War is eye opening on this.

@MoreRainThanAnyYet

If flying people round the world and buttering them up with posh hotels is what it takes to get climate agreements, that’s a worthwhile flight and hotel bill.

They've been doing these for quite a while now, and have accomplished fuck all. How many meetings is it going to take them?

Yabu but only because this is my a wakeup call, this is the new reality. Wakeup call was 25 years ago.

*not a

@ComtesseDeSpair

we need countries like China, India, Saudi Arabia and Brazil on board, all of which have showed a reluctance to make change.

And why should they change? In the West we’ve enjoyed the luxuries and spoils which have arisen from cheap fossil energy, corporate irresponsibility and industrial farming for several generations - and yet now, just as people in the developing world are beginning to get a taste for and enough money to enjoy those things too, we want to tell them how irresponsible they’re being and they need to think of the planet and cut back on their consumption. I don’t think it’s at all surprising that we’re getting pushback from other governments and their populations on this.

That's a pretty narrow minded stance to take considering its the developing world that are likely to feel the extreme effects of climate change, and sooner.

You're not U.
This conversation is so important. Normalising talking about the choices you make to decrease your carbon footprint in your family and social circle:
"Love the sofa I got from Freecycle / these shoes from Oxfam / camping in Norfolk / the zero-waste shop laundry liquid refill!"
"This year? Nah, we stopped flying."
"It was so easy to change my energy supplier / insurance company / current account etc for one that's divested of investment in fossil fuels, I'm kicking myself for not doing it ages ago!"
And so on.
Of course corporations and governments play a huge part, but we can and should be indicating our concern for the climate and environment by making solid consumer choices and telling others about it.
My DC (11 and 8) know that every time we buy something "new" we are participating in a process of creating demand for production which requires both natural resources and energy, both of which take their toll on the planet. They advocate buying second hand or going without every time.

I've know this was happening since I was about 10. The difference is, a few decades on, I really couldn't care less! Humans are just doing what our species has always done, exploit the available resources to try to live the best lives we can.

Who cares what things are like in fifty or a hundred years time? Most of us will be dead by then. If you are worried about the future for you children, the answer is simple - don't have them! I have no sympathy for those who've had kids in the last thirty years or so, it's been clear since the 1980s that we'd be in a lot of trouble by 2100.

The important thing to understand is that all species die out at some point and humans will be no exception, and we shouldn't try to delude ourselves that we are somehow "special" and will exist forever.

Little changes won't change the course we are heading in. We would need radical action - not "PC" radicalness like supergluing yourself to a train, sitting in a road blocking traffic, only flying twice per year or going vegan, but actually radical policies like a massive population cull or sterilisation programme - the world is overpopulated by at least four billion people.

Worrying about the future is a waste of the time that we have left. Enjoy life, live for the moment, use whatever resources we have available to us. Ultimately it's better for us to have a few decades of pleasure than for humans to suffer for centuries.

@ChainJane well, aren't you a breath of fresh air. Mass culls? Sterilisation? Do you take this chat to dinner parties?

OP, I hope the current (and, now, constant) displays of the impacts of climate change will help to sharpen minds and efforts. And I hope that the global response to covid has demonstrated that governments can act quickly, decisively and in a united way when forced to. But on the latter point, it frightens me to think how far down the line we'll have to get with the climate crisis before government takes that sort of action, and at what cost. The sacrifices we could have made 20 years ago to avoid catastrophic global warming were significantly less than what is required now, but god only knows what will need to happen in another 10, 15 years time.

I work in a climate change related field and yes, it scares and depresses me. The comfort I take it that viable solutions do exist. We aren't bumbling around in the dark here, we do know how to avoid and survive the worst effects of global warming. What we lack, right now, is the collective public and political willpower to take that action. But the political landscape is already changing. The most meaningful thing we can do as individuals is to exert pressure on those in power.

I have to have some hope - I have one child and another on the way and, without hope for their futures, I don't think I could get out of bed in the morning.

Worrying about the future is a waste of the time that we have left. Enjoy life, live for the moment, use whatever resources we have available to us. Ultimately it's better for us to have a few decades of pleasure than for humans to suffer for centuries

What a sad and utterly selfish view.

Yes I am worried about it recently. Admittedly for the first time ever. I'd (selfishly) thought before now that it's not going to happen for a long time..

I don't think the climate emergency should be used to further control us minions though, when huge corporations are mostly to blame.

Have you seen what people in parts of Greece and the US are facing right now?

twitter.com/socalfirephoto/status/1423104046689177600?s=21

twitter.com/blkahn/status/1423994817642737665?s=21

All places will be impacted and the safer parts of the world will be even more inundated with displaced and desperate people. Every positive action counts and we are not powerless as individuals because there are millions of us…, but we all need to do as much as we can, including not voting in political parties that talk climate action whilst supporting the status quo.

And I can’t get too worked up about politicians flying to tackle the most pressing global emergency when there are 39 millions flights per day.

Personally I think it's too late to make a real change, people and corporations won't do it until they are forced. Unfortunately, the necessary infrastructure like reliable public transport is nonexistent outside of London, so it makes it difficult to make changes to how you travel, that's one example. I don't have children and knowing what crisis we are facing I'm pleased about that. If we thought Covid was bad we are in for a rude awakening when climate change ramps up a gear.

I just don't think people are will I g to make the necessary sacrifices. I know several people who go on about climate change a lot, post stuff on Facebook and make a big thing that they use a reusable coffee cup, metal straws, and they bought a coffee table made of recycled materials, but drive absolutely everywhere, brand new PCP car every couple of years, at least one long haul holiday a year and during the pandemic absolutely hammered Amazon prime.

People are aware, but they are just not willing to do anything like what is needed in terms of changing their own lifestyle.

I wouldn't change my way of living until the mass polluting countries do something also and it shows committment and results. Like China, and the US where practically everyone over the age of 16 drives a car and they will not give that up for anyone any time soon! And so on.

There is money behind this clarion call, not sure exactly what it is, but you can be sure of it. There are carbon levies and so on, where is that going?

People live in the moment mostly, and a bit of extreme weather in some foreign land is not going to bother a lot of people, when we look out the window and see buckets of rain day after day in Summer.

If there is no immediate threat on an individual basis (see Covid), I doubt much will change. Some people think it is all a scam anyway, there have been floods, pestilence, famines, fires, flooding going on since Adam was a boy, it is not just now.

It seems to be an issue for the committed tree huggers only, most people are not that worried by it as it affects nothing in their lives right now.

I feel more positive actually than I did 10 years ago. Because it's now mainstream, accepted and talked about. Climate change denial is now seen as an extreme and unscientific view. 20 years ago, climate change scientists were seen as doom mongers peddling extreme views.

Technology has come on massively. Things that were fringe or for the minority (wind farms and battery cars) are normal. Desirable.

It is all a bit too little too late, but in terms of public opinion and industry drive we're doing much better. Shame the politicians are a bunch of spineless incompetents.

I work in climate change and yes it’s terrifying. I’m dreading the ippc report on Monday. Basically we are fucked unless we halve emissions before 2030 globally. Which needs widespread support from governments and drastic measures. I know it is probably hopeless but I would really love if everyone could put as much pressure on their governments as possible. Wholesale radical innovation is needed and they are for the most part burying their heads in the sand. And we,re not safe in the uk - in a 2 degrees scenario the feedback loops mean we will get to 3 or 4 degrees, meaning many major cities including London will be under water. We are looking at mass migration, war over resources including food etc. We will be profoundly affected.

What kind of sacrifices do we need to start making on a global level?

What reform would oil and gas companies need to do?

Does anyone know what our lives would look like?

I have googled this, and can't find any really good articles that outline this in simple terms - just lots of stuff about the individual recycling/ not flying/ not having children.

Also - of course we are beginning to see awful stuff happening around the world, but again I can't find any good articles on for example when and where the mass migrations are forecast.

I have read pieces about the water wars that will be in our future unless there is a miraculous shift somehow.

Sorry for rambling but basically if anyone has read anything they found very good and could link it, I'd be very grateful!