Climate change - is this a wakeup call?

[Tulipomania]

Seeing the wildfires in Greece and Turkey.

The extreme heatwave we had here in the UK. Floods in central London.

Flooding in China. More extreme heatwaves in the US.

Is anyone else as worried as I am for the future of our kids, or are we just going to carry on ignoring the warning signs until it is too late?

It's a very big problem but like many other things there won't be significant change because

• it isn't in the interests of business/industry/economies to reduce emissions
• poor people are mostly worse affected than rich people

-it needs a plan bigger/more long term than the turnover of governments or even a generation -its a complex interactive problem interfacing with other aspects of sustainable development not a sound bite answer.

I would think to make any difference would need worldwide effort, coordination, restrictions and personal impacts on or above the scale of the pandemic. But immediate and permanent.

Instead we just keep arguing about the measurements.

Sorry, PlanDeRaccordemen, but are you quite sure about all this?

The poor in Bangladesh can just give notice and move? Because they are all renting? All those affected by the forest fires and the hellish heath waves can give notice and move?

But climate change is invented so someone in Sandbanks can flog their mansion. Of course.

@AbsentmindedWoman and others who wanted a book that deals comprehensively with the facts you couldn't do better than start with this one. But beware; it's a very painful read and sugar-coats nothing.
www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/27/the-uninhabitable-earth-review-david-wallace-wells

@burritofan

Don’t buy from corporations. I’d add don’t support them through non-purchases either: sorry, knackered and can’t find the right words, but stuff like… where’s your pension or S&S ISA invested? Is your money propping up fossil fuels or fracking somewhere?

Random stuff like deleting all your old emails. Even sending a quick “thank you!” email at work carries a (tiny) carbon footprint.

Eat less meat. Don’t buy Bitcoin. Stop buying stuff, really.

There’s lots of little things we as individuals can do to gradually makeover our lifestyles to have less impact (incremental is better because if you try to change all habits overnight you’re likely to fail), but ultimately we need governments to commit to bigger change, faster.

How does deleting my old emails help? (I genuinely don't know )

How does deleting my old emails help? (I genuinely don't know

Server space, uses up energy unnecessarily. I didn't know either, now I'm deleting mercilessly.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Sorry, PlanDeRaccordemen, but are you quite sure about all this?

The poor in Bangladesh can just give notice and move? Because they are all renting? All those affected by the forest fires and the hellish heath waves can give notice and move?

But climate change is invented so someone in Sandbanks can flog their mansion. Of course.

Yes, I am quite sure. Besides you are mixing up over population and human habitation encroachment on known flood and fire zones with climate change.

I saw a great comment on Facebook the other day. You can't throw things away there is no away. That works for everything.

now I'm deleting mercilessly

You should also unsubscribe from everything possible so that you don’t get junk emails. This also helps to prevent you being tempted by sales etc.

Every little helps (despite what the deniers ad defeatists say)

I saw a great comment on Facebook the other day. You can't throw things away there is no away. That works for everything.

Absolutely. The very first toothbrush you ever had as a baby is still sitting there in landfill.

Sorry, I have no time and patience for climate change deniers, Pain.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Sorry, I have no time and patience for climate change deniers, Pain.

I’m not a climate change denier. In fact you are because you are denying the fact that climate change has always existed on Earth and wasn’t made by humans.

I’m not a climate change denier. In fact you are because you are denying the fact that climate change has always existed on Earth and wasn’t made by humans.

I’m astonished that people like you still exist in the world.

All this has been known about for 50 yrs. Oil companies have suppressed data from their own scientists or lobbied to keep climate change away from the public. Plastic that seemed such a miracle product isn't in terms of its life. We want to drive, fly, be warm, chill or cook our food and it's all now coming to a head. Deforestation etc are all making their Mark. Prob until the start of the 20th Century it didn't matter but with growing populations, industrialisation, use of fossil fuels and emissions etc it's built up to where we are at. I work with some Environment Scientists and they are of the opinion we are at the point of no return and we need to adapt accordingly. The next 50 years will prob see the end of e.g. Maldives and lower level ski resorts. But the Govts will chat, planes will fly and big money will continue to be big money

@HasaDigaEebowai

I’m not a climate change denier. In fact you are because you are denying the fact that climate change has always existed on Earth and wasn’t made by humans.

I’m astonished that people like you still exist in the world.

Thankfully we do. Because this climate change panic is ridiculous

Have a read of this
news.climate.columbia.edu/2014/07/11/what-geology-has-to-say-about-global-warming/

World Economic Forum: Which green actions really reduce climate emissions?
www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/05/climate-change-behaviour-impact-survey/

This was on another thread. Interesting graphic showing what actions have the most impact and how people normally get the ranking wrong.

I’m not a climate change denier. In fact you are because you are denying the fact that climate change has always existed on Earth and wasn’t made by humans.

But even if that's your view....

The planet seems to be spinning towards uninhabitable at alarming speed. Even if you steadfastly believe our actions as humans are not responsible, it's just par for the course as earth cycles and evolves (or whatever) do you not think we need to innovate and strategise and make change so that more people won't suffer?

I mean, there are people suffering already, but to at least do damage limitation? Halt the misery wherever possible?

We may be a greedy, selfish species in a lot of ways but we are also capable of profound kindness and generosity and creativity (to each other and to other animals) and I do see the value in trying to not go extinct, for as long as possible. I say this as someone with no children (hope to foster one day when possible).

[quote heldinadream]@AbsentmindedWoman and others who wanted a book that deals comprehensively with the facts you couldn't do better than start with this one. But beware; it's a very painful read and sugar-coats nothing.
www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/27/the-uninhabitable-earth-review-david-wallace-wells[/quote]
Thank you! Looks like a worthwhile read.

@Tulipomania

people think electric cars are 'unaffordable' but really they aren't. There are lots of 2nd hand ones on the market, and the running costs are a fraction of petrol/diesel cars.

Although I would recommend people don't switch to an EV until their current car needs replacing. But anyone who buys a new petrol/diesel car now is going to find it won't hold its value beyond the next few years, and there will be far fewer petrol stations to fill up.

They are affordable if you accept a massive reduction in what you currently have. I can't see many people doing that.

Like for my budget, I'd have to accept a car half the size of mine, can only go 100 miles ish before it needs a 7 hour charge and is also old so probably needs a new battery. Yeah great value for money.

Even the tesla (the cheapest second hand is £39,995 so totally in the affordable range), has a mile range of 390 miles and a 38 hour charge time. I dunno about you, but if I want to travel a long distance, I don't want to be stuck somewhere for a day and a half waiting for my car to charge up again so I can finally make it to my destination.

I also don't care if a car keeps its value. I keep them until they die.

Keeping things until they die is what everyone needs to do. But in terms of electric vehicles, most people don’t travel 390 miles very often. Most people do maybe 30-40 miles a day. So its about mindset change. We need to stop thinking “I have to have a massive car because what about when we drive to Norfolk with the dog on holiday” and instead think “hmm that’s only twice a year so I actuslly only need a small ev a d we can hire a larger car for those two trips”

High meat consumption and industrial agriculture is of course a problem. Vegan diets in high income countries typically involve a significant amount of food miles too though

But it's not either/or. Meat-eating diets typicially involve a significant amount of food miles as well.

Electric vehicles are an expensive load of bollocks at the moment though, the infrastructure isn't there. When it becomes practical and good value for money to get one, we will.

One of the issues with meat is that the rainforests are cut down to grow soya to feed to livestock. If we are the soya ourselves it wouldn’t be so bad because it has something like 10 times the amount of protein than the animal ultimately puts into the food chain.

If you’re going to eat meat then eat it less frequently, eat British meat that doesn’t have thousands of surmises attached and eat chicken which is the least bad option in climate change terms.

*Thousands of air miles

@HasaDigaEebowai

Keeping things until they die is what everyone needs to do. But in terms of electric vehicles, most people don’t travel 390 miles very often. Most people do maybe 30-40 miles a day. So its about mindset change. We need to stop thinking “I have to have a massive car because what about when we drive to Norfolk with the dog on holiday” and instead think “hmm that’s only twice a year so I actuslly only need a small ev a d we can hire a larger car for those two trips”

There are people in here who think that only a massive suv will do in terms of safety for their children. Good luck with that argument.

There are people in here who think that only a massive suv will do in terms of safety for their children. Good luck with that argument

But that’s why education and awareness are so important. Including threads like these. We were once a two diesel large engine family and we will soon be a one ev family.