Climate change - is this a wakeup call?

[Tulipomania]

Seeing the wildfires in Greece and Turkey.

The extreme heatwave we had here in the UK. Floods in central London.

Flooding in China. More extreme heatwaves in the US.

Is anyone else as worried as I am for the future of our kids, or are we just going to carry on ignoring the warning signs until it is too late?

@AbsentmindedWoman

What kind of sacrifices do we need to start making on a global level?

What reform would oil and gas companies need to do?

Does anyone know what our lives would look like?

I have googled this, and can't find any really good articles that outline this in simple terms - just lots of stuff about the individual recycling/ not flying/ not having children.

Yes, I'm interested in these questions too - what would it actually look like for us?

I work in a climate change related field and yes, it scares and depresses me. The comfort I take it that viable solutions do exist. We aren't bumbling around in the dark here, we do know how to avoid and survive the worst effects of global warming. What we lack, right now, is the collective public and political willpower to take that action. But the political landscape is already changing. The most meaningful thing we can do as individuals is to exert pressure on those in power.

Like @Howtotameyourtoddler I also work in the field, and I agree with their take on it. It is generally the feeling amongst my colleagues too.

The answers are there, we still have time, but only if we act now and with urgency.

I do not pretend to be an expert in any way but have also been trying to inform myself and believe that on the individual level one of the best things we can do - as touched on upthread - is look at where our money is invested. What are our pensions, ISAs etc supporting?

The other one I discovered is sponsoring small actions with bigger knock-on effects - for example, sponsoring a girl to stay in school in certain parts of Asia/Africa can dramatically reduce the number of children she is likely to bear over a lifetime because it protects her from becoming a child bride. The knock on effects of this single thing is apparently pretty big because population growth is a fundamental cause of climate change and it has to be slowed.

It does feel desperate but current wisdom still seems to dictate that if we take urgent action we can change it. It feels insurmountable but I don't see how we can accept the 'it's too late' idea.

People need to be forced to change. I look around at everyone who are spending so much on consumerism . The latest thing for people we know is to get hot tubs. Big plastic things in the garden using completely unecessary energy. Should things like that actually be illegal across the world? Probably in an ideal world.

I have googled this, and can't find any really good articles that outline this in simple terms - just lots of stuff about the individual recycling/ not flying/ not having children.

I’ve looked too and agree there is very little. My pessimistic view is that this is because the changes that need to happen are so drastic and the impacts on our day to day lifestyles are so huge that no one - not environmental NGOs, not campaigners, and definitely not politicians - are willing to spell it out. Because it will be utterly disruptive of everything we see as “normal”. And people, generally, don’t want that.

Do you think we would literally have to go back to living in basic houses and travelling by horse and cart? Growing our own veg etc. Say back to 1800s style living ?

The world is huge. Unless and until everyone does their bit nothing will change.
No point in me doing X or Y if the entire population of China or wherever continues to pollute the planet.
I don't know what the solution is, but it has to be global. Will it though?

It's a bit late for a wake up call I thing.

We slept through the alarm, we'll be paying for it.

@ChainJane
I think you’re right. There’s been 5 major extinction events. Ours will be no different.

No one wants to live like a peasants. People om MN can’t cope withot washing their hair and clothes every single day.
Unless we radically reduce the population and keep it low there’s no point anyway.

There are masses of things we can do. Read “there is no planet b” by Mike Berners Lee.

Some of the biggest things:

Get solar panels - still a money saving move too.

Stop buying stuff you really can live without. If you have to buy try to buy things that are well made and can be repaired when they do break and try to buy second hand if you can.
If you need a car get an electric one but ideally only when your current vehicle is at the end of its life - otherwise the carbon involved in making the vehicle has been wasted since an awful lot of cars are scrapped.
Plant trees. This has a massive impact but interestingly the carbon benefits are mainly whilst the trees are growing and less so when they’re mature
Stop flying - nobody wants to hear it, we all want our foreign holiday and everyone seems to think they can’t “live their best life” without it. But it makes such a massive difference that this alone could slow things down enough to give us time to implement measure that could basically save the planet.
Of course there are then thousands of small things we can do too that really do all add up and we should be trying to influence those around us to make changes too.

Wow, I went to test drive a new EV (yes really, I've had one for 6 years and it's time to get one with a better range) and this thread hasn't fizzled out yet.

Personally I don't begrudge the leaders flying in for COP 26, I think face to face meeting is important for getting an agreement, and it's tiny compared to people flying on holiday.

I also work in a climate-change related industry and have been watching people ignore the signs for 10 years.

On China, they have a net zero goal too - it's just later than ours. And yes, their energy is polluting and their politics is horrible, but they are also world leaders on generating renewable power.

I also think we should be capable of an international response to climate change that involves nearly everyone, just as we did for Covid.

And also that supporting a green economy can actually be a wealth generator too.

We jus need to get on and fucking do it. And stop bitching about wind turbines and solar panels going in the wrong places.

If stop flying makes such a difference then it is just awful that the government are being pressured by the “travel industry” to allow holidays again. Foreign holidays should be phased out of people’s lives. And this needs to be done on a government level not just asking people nicely.

@Snoogled

A sizeable proportion of the world still lives like that, you know.

No i don’t think that in the west we’ll see living standards go backwards like that. We are not going to un-invent technology that we already have. I think will happen is that we get less and less choice about how we live - but hopefully there will be carrots as well as sticks.

Eg. In France, diesel vehicles are being phased out and the gouvernement is making it harder and harder to own one and use it daily. In a few years you won’t be able to buy one. Already, pollution control schemes mean that on high pollution days, older diesels aren’t allowed to be driven in the cities (and commuters / shoppers have to make alternative arrangements). Over time, the number of no-diesel-allowed days will increase. Until diesel cars simply cannot be used in cities… then the whole country. No choice - you have to buy a non diesel car or not drive. The carrots: grants to trade in diesels, various incentives to buy an electric car (still really expensive though).

And other things - holidays for example - will simply be priced out of the reach of many. Once the externalities (true costs to the environment of such activities) are priced into the cost we pay, they will be out of reach for many people.

But who’s going to vote for that? Maybe in Europe where there is more of a collective approach, but I can’t see the US or U.K. getting behind it.

@HasaDigaEebowai

No, what you have to do is vote for politicians who will make all of these things obligations that apply to whole populations, not options or lifestyle. You doing all these things makes zero difference. But a government that forces airlines to internalise the environmental costs of their activities? That’s worth doing.

Let me know if you find a politician you’d vote for who’s up for this.

Workwoes123 yes I realise a lot of the world lives like that. I wasn’t meaning that it was too drastic a change. Just that perhaps that is what we need to do. If it makes a better world for our children I would do it. I would be behind a lot of changes if it was a community wide change for everyone. But I am not going to give up car myself so my children have to walk everywhere while their friends drive around in land rovers.

[quote workwoes123]@Snoogled

A sizeable proportion of the world still lives like that, you know.

No i don’t think that in the west we’ll see living standards go backwards like that. We are not going to un-invent technology that we already have. I think will happen is that we get less and less choice about how we live - but hopefully there will be carrots as well as sticks.

Eg. In France, diesel vehicles are being phased out and the gouvernement is making it harder and harder to own one and use it daily. In a few years you won’t be able to buy one. Already, pollution control schemes mean that on high pollution days, older diesels aren’t allowed to be driven in the cities (and commuters / shoppers have to make alternative arrangements). Over time, the number of no-diesel-allowed days will increase. Until diesel cars simply cannot be used in cities… then the whole country. No choice - you have to buy a non diesel car or not drive. The carrots: grants to trade in diesels, various incentives to buy an electric car (still really expensive though).

And other things - holidays for example - will simply be priced out of the reach of many. Once the externalities (true costs to the environment of such activities) are priced into the cost we pay, they will be out of reach for many people.

But who’s going to vote for that? Maybe in Europe where there is more of a collective approach, but I can’t see the US or U.K. getting behind it.[/quote]
A travel industry expert has said that annual overseas travel will decline. Her prediction is that people will holiday overseas much less frequently but will travel for a longer period when they do.

Politicians do whatever they think people want. If we all show we want climate change to be a priority then they will prioritise it. Politicians who are concerned about this will come through but in the meantime we have to do as much as we can ourselves and try to influence those around us as much as possible. When everyone is talking about how much they want to go on holiday it needs to become normal to say that you’re not doing that anymore because of the climate impact. It won’t be popular though.

I wonder if there are any (pollution) stats relating to the huge restrictions on air and sea travel, and travel generally during Covid.

I suppose reversing the ship will take longer than a year or so though.

Imports and exports will still need to be transported even if every one of us decided on a week in Mablethorpe instead of Marbella. Aren't we getting lamb from New Zealand under a post Brexit trade agreement? That is a long way away.

Those with the means to do it will not have to limit their activities if they don't want to. So as usual, those with few choices as it is will have fewer than ever. It was always thus.

I’m currently thinking hard about whether I want children or not because of this. Not necessarily because it creates more carbon (I’m not that selfless) but more because of the potential shit they are likely to inherit. I don’t know if it’s fair. Interestingly tho so many people in my field, sustainability, have them despite knowing all of this. I think there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance

Snoogled, you mentioned the unnecessary energy your friends use to heat their hot tubs. To me, this word just about sums it up as far as individual contribution is concerned; is the thing you are thinking of buying / watching / eating absolutely necessary?
I could have renovated my kitchen and bathroom three times over in the time I've lived in my house if I'd followed my neighbour's example, but the thing is, it is not necessary. Sure, my decor is perhaps a bit dated, but it works and I keep it smart and clean. When decorating, I see what is available on Freecycle, eBay, FB or my local tip-shop and decorate using resources already used or left over.
So "Is it necessary?" is the question which generally starts and quickly finishes any consumer ponderings I have.

@StartingAgain33 as someone who works in the field, and has done since long before I had children, there certainly is some cognitive dissonance for me. I have had more than a few moments of waking up at 4am and genuinely feeling terror at what they might experience in their lifetime. But, at the same time - and I'm not being glib - life goes on, as it always has. I will raise my children to be gentle, to respect and care for the environment, and to think critically. The future does look bleak, in many respects, but there are spots of brightness as well - advances in medicine, for example. Human beings created this mess and I sincerely believe (perhaps hope is a better word. It's belief, without the trust) that we will create our way out of it as well.

@veeeeh

Not pollution but impact on carbon emissions due to lockdowns. www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00090-3

So, a blip and not a long lasting one at that.

@Elys3 I think I read that NZ and Venice are both planning to discourage cheap / budget tourists and focus on high end, high value visitors from now on.

@HasaDigaEebowai

Worrying about the future is a waste of the time that we have left. Enjoy life, live for the moment, use whatever resources we have available to us. Ultimately it's better for us to have a few decades of pleasure than for humans to suffer for centuries

What a sad and utterly selfish view.

But it is true. Might as well not worry about it, it will still happen. You need governments and corporations to work together on this fully to stop it. They aren't going to, they like lining their pockets more.

You can live your life in fear, recycling everything, buying second hand, going without etc that's fine, but don't kid yourself that it will help. It won't.

I have had more than a few moments of waking up at 4am and genuinely feeling terror at what they might experience in their lifetime.

What do people actually mean by this?

Water shortages? Food shortages?

Huge surges of people fleeing uninhabitable areas and the resulting unrest? As a poster mentioned the potential for London being underwater if things go beyond a certain point.

Where can you read about these possible worst case (and, I suppose, second and third worst) scenarios?

What are the potential timelines?

Very good question @AbsentmindedWoman. There is a report coming out on Monday by the IPPC which is the refreshed climate scenarios. It’ll be a hard read but really important. Im not sure what it will spell out in terms of what the scenarios mean for life on earth but they are generally the most important and up to date info on where we are at.