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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Climate change - is this a wakeup call?

192 replies

Tulipomania · 07/08/2021 07:58

Seeing the wildfires in Greece and Turkey.

The extreme heatwave we had here in the UK. Floods in central London.

Flooding in China. More extreme heatwaves in the US.

Is anyone else as worried as I am for the future of our kids, or are we just going to carry on ignoring the warning signs until it is too late?

OP posts:
SmokeyDevil · 07/08/2021 20:00

@HasaDigaEebowai

You can live your life in fear, recycling everything, buying second hand, going without etc that's fine, but don't kid yourself that it will help. It won't

Well that sort of attitude helps nobody and is quite frankly a big pathetic. Its just making excuses.

I can only control certain things. I can control my own carbon footprint. I can influence the attitudes of my children, I can influence friends and family, I can ensure my own business isn’t contributing to the problem. Ultimately, If enough people do the same then manufacturers will be impacted and will change and politicians will realise this matters to people.

Defeatist attitudes help nobody. I don’t live my life in fear, I live my life in hope.
.

You can do all of that, but you can afford it, what about those who cant? It's easy to say to people go plastic free, get solar panels, buy an electric car etc but these all cost a lot of money, that many can't afford. I can't afford an electric car, and I'm certainly not getting a loan for some crappy one. I'll stick to diesel or petrol.

You can influence all you want, but the majority of people in the world are too poor to afford that lifestyle. Until the majority can catch up, and the corporations take action themselves, it will not make a difference.

hibbledibble · 07/08/2021 20:01

Areas that aren't suitable for crops could be reworded, and crops grown for animal feed could be eaten instead, which is far more energy efficient. There is a lot of science and research behind recommending a vegan diet for environmental reasons. Unfortunately, many are not willing to make the change, as they enjoy the taste of meat and dairy too much.

catsjammies · 07/08/2021 20:05

@AbsentmindedWoman

I live in NYC. A few weeks ago, there was a weird dull haze over the city here caused by the Californian wildfires.

It was very discomfiting, a stark visible reminder of how something happening thousands of miles away produced this effect here - air quality plummeted, the sky was greyish.

I wonder, as more and more things like that happen, if people who currently deny and don't care about the climate will be forced to acknowledge there is a big fucking problem.

The smoke from the wildfires in Australia last year reached New Zealand.

I agree we are fucked. DH occasionally talks about our kids (2 and 4) bringing the grandkids home to visit us in 30 years time, sitting in the garden. He dreams of a beautiful cottage country garden with lovely fresh food etc. It make my stomach churn to think about whenever he mentions it. Life won't be as we know it in 30 years.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 07/08/2021 20:06

I wonder, as more and more things like that happen, if people who currently deny and don't care about the climate will be forced to acknowledge there is a big fucking problem

I think it might spur a few who deny the issue utterly to have a rethink, but in terms of people who don't care, nope. Personally, I'm full accepting of the fact the human race is facing a rather significant environmental problem entirely of it's own doing, but as someone who chose not to have kids, and will be dead before it becomes catastrophic, do I actually care? Nope, not a jot. Plenty of other things to be busying myself with right now.

Tulipomania · 07/08/2021 20:08

people think electric cars are 'unaffordable' but really they aren't. There are lots of 2nd hand ones on the market, and the running costs are a fraction of petrol/diesel cars.

Although I would recommend people don't switch to an EV until their current car needs replacing. But anyone who buys a new petrol/diesel car now is going to find it won't hold its value beyond the next few years, and there will be far fewer petrol stations to fill up.

OP posts:
pickledsausage · 07/08/2021 20:10

Thanks OP for this thread.

As a few people have said, no it’s nothing new but I think it’s become so much more urgent over the last couple of years - too late for many of us with young children to have considered not having them! I’m so worried about what they and we may experience. But how do you get people to listen? My family and friends glaze over the moment you mention anything, and often the outlay of doing things in a more environmentally friendly way is unobtainable for most (Side note: if anyone is in London, you can apply for a £50 voucher for reusable nappies here: www.realnappiesforlondon.org.uk/)

It just feels hopeless at times. Will look out for the report on Monday.

Moonmelodies · 07/08/2021 20:12

EVs are certainly proving very popular in China.
So popular that they are commissioning hundreds of new coal-fired power stations in order to charge them..

Gilmoregale · 07/08/2021 20:15

I think the tipping point has long since been breached, we had enough warnings over the past decades, both from scientists and those with a more spiritual viewpoint, like the Hopi. Since spirituality isn't currently trendy in our beyond materialistic Western world, I won't labour the point on that, but there's plenty out there if you feel like looking.

If we are very, very, very lucky, it might be possible to stabilise the situation, but not without addressing the fact that the planet has too many humans on it OR without us accepting that every aspect of the way we choose to live our lives will have to change dramatically OR both. This is just one of the elephants in the room; in my lifetime alone, the global population has more than doubled, and with it, the strain on resources on a finite planet and our effect on the climate.

As it is, in the second half of my lifetime, I'm expecting to see a huge increase in these formerly "extreme" weather events. Now that London's starting to experience flash floods relatively regularly, the mainstream media might start paying a bit more attention (though I'm not holding my breath); places like the East of England, and Cumbria, and the midlands around Gloucester have long had to just cope with it.

In the West Country this year, for the first time ever in the UK, the Met Office issued a high temperature warning. Meanwhile the likes of the Daily Mail and the Express and the Sun keep bleating about what a wonderful thing hot weather is, completely ignoring the strain it puts on infrastructure and, for those with certain health conditions, the human body itself.

And that's just the UK, where, for now, we still have a relatively mild climate. It's far worse in parts of Europe, India, and North America, to name just three. And if the likes of Farage and Hopkins were incensed about "ordinary" refugees, they're going to LOVE climate refugees...I can see them staffing the gunboats in the Channel now...

On a personal note, eating meat, flying everywhere at the drop of a hat, fast fashion, getting in the car to drive a couple of miles - it won't be long before it's only the very rich who'll be able to afford to do that kind of thing on a regular basis. Life is likely to become much more localised (unless you're a billionaire who thinks space tourism and a permanent base on the moon for rich folk is the way forward, of course...)

On the plus side, we may stop being such a throwaway society and learn to repurpose or reuse or remake, like the War Generation had to. Solar power and other alternative power will hopefully take a massive step forward (as long as the NIMBY folk don't get too upset about those fields of panels/turbines next to their mansions), and localisation may lead to a stronger sense of community. The education system may even finally start teaching kids useful skills instead of making them memorise the wives of Henry the Eighth ad infinitum, employ obscure mathematical techniques, and recite Shakespeare at will. (And no, I don't think Shakespeare is a waste of time, but I just wonder what practical application it might have for growing crops, say.)

The overall ecological situation is just one more reason I don't understand why the UK willingly made itself such an insignificant player on the world stage and why decades of European partnership were thrown down the drain for the sake of a vanity project. The Netherlands, for instance, has long lived with floods, and they have come up with innovative solutions (houses that rise on stilts). And those shortages in the supermarkets at the moment? Almost certainly just a taste of what lies ahead, if you'll pardon the pun.

In the meantime, for however long I've personally got left, I'll just keep buying local and second-hand; limiting very occasional holidays to trips to see the family in this country; planting my carrots, potatoes, and turnips (or squash, cucumber, and peppers when the climate starts getting hotter and wetter), and reading/watching dystopian/speculative science fiction (and actual science, obviously, as well as history), so that whatever scenario happens, it doesn't come as too much of a shock...

PlanDeRaccordement · 07/08/2021 20:15

Climate Change is a too convenient bogey man trotted out by politicians to blame failures of society on. Climate has always changed on Earth to weather much more extreme than what we are experiencing now. The whole “worst recorded” yeah well look at the records they are counting guarenteed they are excluding tens of thousands of years of data with that little bit of propaganda.

Floods in central London...caused by the fact it is mostly concrete and the biggest it has ever been. There are entire books written about the rivers of London that no longer exist because they’ve been paved over. The natural drainage no longer exists so the water has no where to go, except down into the Tube tunnels.

Wildfires anywhere, always happened in the past too. We just have built human housing in fire prone forests. You know certain trees actuall reproduce using forest fires to activate their seeds? Forest fires are absolutely natural occurences.

Yes I worry about the planet, but climate change isn’t my worry. That’s mostly by the rich 1% sitting on expensive coastal properties who want paid back because the oceans don’t stay put. They never have. Our continents are constantly changing shape and moving. So they invent climate change to cash in.

My worry is pollution. That’s what is killing everyone and everything. Especially micro-plastics and particulate emissions.

Tulipomania · 07/08/2021 20:16

Moonmelodies China generates more renewable energy than any other country on earth.

We have to stop blaming them for everything, and take responsibility for the fact the west has benefited hugely from the industrial revolution and caused the situation we find ourselves in today.

OP posts:
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 07/08/2021 20:17

If we are very, very, very lucky, it might be possible to stabilise the situation, but not without addressing the fact that the planet has too many humans on it OR without us accepting that every aspect of the way we choose to live our lives will have to change dramatically OR both. This is just one of the elephants in the room; in my lifetime alone, the global population has more than doubled, and with it, the strain on resources on a finite planet and our effect on the climate.

Luck has nothing to do with it. There need to be the will to change things, and there isn't. No politician will dare do what's needed and the endless flying across the globe for a "well deserved holiday" will go on.

PlanDeRaccordement · 07/08/2021 20:22

@hibbledibble

Areas that aren't suitable for crops could be reworded, and crops grown for animal feed could be eaten instead, which is far more energy efficient. There is a lot of science and research behind recommending a vegan diet for environmental reasons. Unfortunately, many are not willing to make the change, as they enjoy the taste of meat and dairy too much.
So what happens to those cows if we stop growing feed for them? Just machine gun 99% and let 1% live on in a petting zoo like what they did to the horses when the military “liquidated” their calavary forces?
LaurieFairyCake · 07/08/2021 20:22

Educate females, give free contraception

Population will fall like a stone

AbsentmindedWoman · 07/08/2021 20:22

Personally, I'm full accepting of the fact the human race is facing a rather significant environmental problem entirely of it's own doing, but as someone who chose not to have kids, and will be dead before it becomes catastrophic, do I actually care?

Firstly - how sure are you that you will be dead before things become catastrophic?

Obviously that depends how long you see yourself living! But if you're hopeful to still be around in another two/ three decades...Well, things may be bad enough by then?

This is why I feel a bit dim and uneducated and quite vague about the whole thing Grin I thought the door was closing faster than had been previously predicted, and that the global population was now in a position of serious risk of water shortages in the next twenty years or so.

But then lots of people just seem to feel ok about it because it's not likely to be that soon?

LaurieFairyCake · 07/08/2021 20:23

The cows can just not be replaced - that's very easy

It will (and is already) naturally going down the more people eat veggie food

colouringindoors · 07/08/2021 20:26

So they invent climate change to cash in

🙄

99% of the world's climate scientists disagree with you.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 07/08/2021 20:28

Firstly - how sure are you that you will be dead before things become catastrophic?

Age, health, and location.

I can remember huge gatherings of world leaders in the 1980's telling us we'd all be underwater and burned to a crisp by 2000. Hasn't happened. Pardon me for raising a quizzical eyebrow when I hear exactly the same thing being said about 2030 right now.

That's not outright denial, as I said, I'm totally accepting of the fact it is coming, I just can't get worked up at all about folk running around claiming the sky is falling in imminently, when I've been hearing the exact same thing for decades and it's still hasn't materialised.

PlanDeRaccordement · 07/08/2021 20:29

@colouringindoors

So they invent climate change to cash in

🙄

99% of the world's climate scientists disagree with you.

Heh heh heh that’s a fake statistics because it only counts climatologists. Who are known to be ignoring all the climate scientists who are geologists and have actually put together the planets climate for the past billions of years instead of thinking the last 200yrs of human jottings are all the data we have.
PlanDeRaccordement · 07/08/2021 20:32

@LaurieFairyCake

Educate females, give free contraception

Population will fall like a stone

It already is. Population growth globally has slowed to less than 1% and by 2050 is projected to stabilise and even has a chance of declining. Read the WHO and UN studies.

Agree female rights and technology are the driving force behind this (both products of the Industrial Revolution)

thecatsthecats · 07/08/2021 20:32

@YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators

You're not U. This conversation is so important. Normalising talking about the choices you make to decrease your carbon footprint in your family and social circle: "Love the sofa I got from Freecycle / these shoes from Oxfam / camping in Norfolk / the zero-waste shop laundry liquid refill!" "This year? Nah, we stopped flying." "It was so easy to change my energy supplier / insurance company / current account etc for one that's divested of investment in fossil fuels, I'm kicking myself for not doing it ages ago!" And so on. Of course corporations and governments play a huge part, but we can and should be indicating our concern for the climate and environment by making solid consumer choices and telling others about it. My DC (11 and 8) know that every time we buy something "new" we are participating in a process of creating demand for production which requires both natural resources and energy, both of which take their toll on the planet. They advocate buying second hand or going without every time.
My ILs look at me like I've grown a second head whenever I say something like that.

My husband and I are planning to have one child unless my uterus thwarts us and produces twins, and we plan to buy only second hand. We know we'll get buried in a plastic mountain either way.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 07/08/2021 20:33

Yes I worry about the planet, but climate change isn’t my worry. That’s mostly by the rich 1% sitting on expensive coastal properties who want paid back because the oceans don’t stay put. They never have. Our continents are constantly changing shape and moving. So they invent climate change to cash in.

Really?

According to the UN Presently about 40% of the world's population lives within 100 kilometers of the coast. As population density and economic activity in the coastal zone increases, pressures on coastal ecosystems increase..

Also who is they who invented it and how do they benefit?

PlanDeRaccordement · 07/08/2021 20:33

@LaurieFairyCake

The cows can just not be replaced - that's very easy

It will (and is already) naturally going down the more people eat veggie food

I’m ok with a natural decline in livestock populations...just some of these doomsayers think we have to reduce them NOW...as in far quicker than their natural lifespan....by massacring them.
Mandalay246 · 07/08/2021 20:35

Worrying about the future is a waste of the time that we have left. Enjoy life, live for the moment, use whatever resources we have available to us. Ultimately it's better for us to have a few decades of pleasure than for humans to suffer for centuries

Angry Angry Angry Have you always been such a selfish idiot?

LaurieFairyCake · 07/08/2021 20:36

Plan

They kill them pretty quick anyway Sad average age of a cow for meat or dairy is less than 2 years

PlanDeRaccordement · 07/08/2021 20:41

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Yes I worry about the planet, but climate change isn’t my worry. That’s mostly by the rich 1% sitting on expensive coastal properties who want paid back because the oceans don’t stay put. They never have. Our continents are constantly changing shape and moving. So they invent climate change to cash in.

Really?

According to the UN Presently about 40% of the world's population lives within 100 kilometers of the coast. As population density and economic activity in the coastal zone increases, pressures on coastal ecosystems increase..

Also who is they who invented it and how do they benefit?

They #1 = the continents They #2 = the rich 1% who invented climate change as convenient bogey man to blame everything on so government can fund expensive and useless projects to protect their beachfront or coastal/tidal affected rich inner city properties. Ie their £80 million London townhouse, their $80million Manhattan town house, their Bahama island beach house, etc. The poor don’t matter....they simply serve notice and move to a different rental property that isn’t flooding. It is the rich owners of these properties that cannot stand to see them go under the sea. So the governments sink trillions systems to pump the sea water away with tidal dams....oh like London already has. Miami, NYC, LA, Singapore, Hong Kong.....the rich cities.

When the truth is climate change cannot be stopped. It is eternal. It is futile and just robbing the poor to keep the rich man’s property values up.

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