Nine years for starving a baby to death

[PropertyFlipper]

I’m struggling to see the justice here. This sorry specimen will be out in five years no doubt. Devastating.
Teen mother, 19, bursts into tears as she is jailed for nine years

I have the sister of the mother on social media… She says that the mother suffered from PND, had a split personality disorder and another mental health illness. The family notified social services multiple times, attempted to adopt the child too. She says that the system failed both the mother and child… But believes that her sister has not received a long enough sentence for what she did.

It’s sad because the family feel responsible but from the sounds of what the sister said, the mother lied and said the child was sleeping as they were ill- when the family attempted to contact or ask to facetime the child. The family found out what truly happened through social media as the mother lied and said the police are basically framing her, saying she gave the baby “too much calpol”… The family knew the sister wasn’t coping and so did the staff

I totally understand the anger and the fury, but to insist people can not be rehabilitated is entirely incorrect. We're just crap at it

I really, really want to believe you. I truly hope that it is possible.

Rehabilitation is indeed possible for the majority of prisoners, it will vary on an individual level and needs initiated in prison with post release follow up and support. A humane approach is rehabilitation. Prisons are disproportionately full of people who’ve experienced trauma & dysfunction, there’s always a back story

I appreciate rehabilitation is unpalatable for some. Fundamentally misunderstood as soft option or excusing the behaviour. It’s emotionally painful process to address offending behaviours and take responsibility for your actions. She’ll be young upon release rehabilitation should be initiated

@XDownwiththissortofthingX and is this something she openly admits she did? Killed her own child? Or is it a can't mention as it might upset her/paint her in a bad light?

@EspressoDoubleShot

Rehabilitation is indeed possible for the majority of prisoners, it will vary on an individual level and needs initiated in prison with post release follow up and support. A humane approach is rehabilitation. Prisons are disproportionately full of people who’ve experienced trauma & dysfunction, there’s always a back story

I appreciate rehabilitation is unpalatable for some. Fundamentally misunderstood as soft option or excusing the behaviour. It’s emotionally painful process to address offending behaviours and take responsibility for your actions. She’ll be young upon release rehabilitation should be initiated

You certainly seem more knowledgeable on the subject than I am. I do generally believe in rehabilitation - very few prisoners are incarcerated for life and so it is entirely necessary for the rest of society so that offenders do not go on to keep re-offending.

I just can’t get my head around how someone like this could ever possibly be rehabilitated enough It’s such an extreme case of neglect - how can she ever change enough so that she is no longer a threat? It seems like an impossible task.

I truly hope I am wrong.

The mother was not diverted to mental health facility, and it wasn’t part of sentencing, on remand she would have had a psychiatric assessment.If there were a significant mental illness she could have been detained on a s37 hospital treatment order. This was not the case

and is this something she openly admits she did? Killed her own child? Or is it a can't mention as it might upset her/paint her in a bad light?

I'm wary of talking about it in much more detail because it is a real-life case, but as I understand it she admits it to the people who matter, but people on the periphery who find out are told about an 'accident'.

@Goldbar

We expect a lot of mothers. We expect more of mothers than any other group in society. We put them on a pedestal - "mother" means security, love, warmth and self-sacrifice. Although thankfully few mothers fail as completely as Asiah's mother, this expectation blinds us to the fact that many mothers are unable to meet these expectations and are far and away not the best people to meet their children's needs. Becoming a mother doesn't automatically make someone into a reliable, caring, stable individual and we let children down when we assume this will be the case.

Oh come off it. Motherhood aside, if you knew that any vulnerable person was trapped in a room and starving to death, and one phonecall would save them, would you make that call? Of course you would. It's called humanity

The mother is not a monster. Her behaviour,her culpability is monstrous
Putting aside the let her fit, sterilise her comments. I understand the anger but such sentiments add nothing. Essentially the mum is a very young woman In prison who’ll need rehabilitation. On release she’ll be monitored in community, moved away to another area. Any pregnancies will be statutorily monitored and subject to prebirth assessments

Unfortunately goldba
Whilst a mother killing her child is rare, many, many women, people should never be allowed near children.
Or men of course, I think in many cases the bar for what being a mum means is extremely low.

It don't think some prisoners should be rehabilitated, especially not those who harm children.

I can't understand what the fear of people harming children is when such weak sentences are given out?

I'm all for rehabilitation when it's theft... Drug issues... But not harming children no.

Expresso...

She should be offered sterilisation, or life long monitoring and not allowed hear children.
No one who harm's and child should be allowed to have another child..

That right should be removed.

@Panickingpavlova

Expresso...

She should be offered sterilisation, or life long monitoring and not allowed hear children.
No one who harm's and child should be allowed to have another child..

That right should be removed.

Completely agree, if she does have more kids they should be removed from birth

I'm all for rehabilitation when it's theft... Drug issues... But not harming children no
You won’t offer rehabilitation for a heinous crime?why
If no rehabilitation offered all that’s achieved is detention and deprivation of Liberty. She still gets released at end of sentence
Sentencing is based on guidelines & sentences the judge can recommend

@Panickingpavlova

Unfortunately goldba Whilst a mother killing her child is rare, many, many women, people should never be allowed near children. Or men of course, I think in many cases the bar for what being a mum means is extremely low.

It don't think some prisoners should be rehabilitated, especially not those who harm children.

I can't understand what the fear of people harming children is when such weak sentences are given out?

I'm all for rehabilitation when it's theft... Drug issues... But not harming children no.

Absolutely agree with all of @Panickingpavlova says here

It’s not the role of the state to sterilise prisoners. That’s knee jerk punitive punishment to appease public anger.

You won’t offer rehabilitation for a heinous crime?why
If no rehabilitation offered all that’s achieved is detention and deprivation of Liberty. She still gets released at end of sentence
Then let's just not release?

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Actually, the people making up scenarios with zero evidence are making excuses. Saying she needed better support or was harmed by her own abuse isn't excuses, but there definitely are people making excuses

Again, no. That's speculation.

'I wonder what caused this woman, who is entirely responsible for the death of her child, to act the way she did?'

Speculation. No 'excusing' whatsoever.

Going out of your way to make things up - again, she wasn't a sex slave or held captive- is not "speculation". As PP said, she's also been sentenced and convicted of [voluntary] manslaughter.

For the last time, we know she was troubled. Posters like myself object to the made up stories absolving her of any wrongdoing at all. Absolute drivel and disgraceful, once again, to the child who is the real victim.

This story has weighed so heavy on my heart today. I can't even find the words to communicate how I feel about this, as a mother and a human being.

I'd personally want to lock the door and throw away the key, let her rot. I just can't begin with it to be honest.

Let’s not release then
That’s not an option. Her sentence was 9year. Not a whole life order
There needs to be an intervention and when the time comes discharge planning

I'm all for rehabilitation when it's theft... Drug issues... But not harming children no.

What about a child who had been through who knows what?
She didn't end up in care for nothing, she was abused while in care, and pregnant at 15.
What a wonderful start in life that girl has had.

I sincerely hope she gets the help she needs in prison.

I agree @Lockdownbear

Then let's just not release?

You can't just ramp sentences endlessly upwards without introducing unintended consequences. Aside from the question of cost, staffing, facilities etc, you introduce an element of 'what the hell' thinking into the minds of criminals.

We already know that tougher sentences, even capital punishment, do nothing to act as a deterrent, so while, on the face of it, longer sentences might go some way to appeasing public feeling (which I have my doubts about because some people will never be satisfied regardless), you can't seriously advocate for them without fulling understanding what they are actually going mean in terms of knock-on effects.

To put it crudely, I'm a rapist. I know that if I'm caught and prosecuted I'm going to go to jail and never be released. Ok, in that case I'm just going to rape and kill my victim, since if she isn't alive chances of my crime being discovered and a successful prosecution diminish.

Personally I don't want any part of a country that does 'lock them up and throw away the key' justice. It's completely counterproductive, is driven by nothing other than spite and vindictiveness, and completely undermines the State's moral authority in a similar way to Capital punishment. Leave that nonsense for the real tinpot places. I don't want the UK to be on a par with Iran, China, Saudi and the like when it comes to judicial matters. They are barbarians, we are not.

@EspressoDoubleShot

It’s not the role of the state to sterilise prisoners. That’s knee jerk punitive punishment to appease public anger.

It wouldn't be forced (as in physically forced) but more like vaccine passports where if you want to do the things you want, you need to comply with the rules. If you don't want social workers checking up on you, you need to be sterilised to prevent pregnancy

I don't see the counter argument in a case like this. She killed her child, whether deliberately or by extreme neglect. Why is her right to procreate more important than a potential child's right to life/freedom from harm? She's not forced, just incentivised.

I hope she is repentant for her heinous behaviour and actions.

That’s really an incoherent and angry diatribe. Full of suggestions that’ll never be initiated @abcdeg
It’s in the hang her, flog her category. Emotive but adds nothing