Nine years for starving a baby to death

[PropertyFlipper]

I’m struggling to see the justice here. This sorry specimen will be out in five years no doubt. Devastating.
Teen mother, 19, bursts into tears as she is jailed for nine years

@abcdeg

*Murder requires action, not inaction.

It terrifies me that some people on this thread are eligible for jury duty*.

@Ravenclawsome

Leaving your child alone isn't intent? Six days, no nourishment for a one year old?

I guess anyone can leave a child to be attacked by a dog or drown then. Since it was inaction, it's not murder?

The ONLY reason Verphy wasn't convicted of murder is they can't prove she expected the child to die, most likely because she may have believed somebody would intervene. Of course leaving a 1yo to starve can be murder.

A reasonable person would expect the child to suffer ill effects. But there's huge question marks over whether she was a reasonable person in that regard.

This was death as a result of neglect, not stabbing. The criminal justice system is not so black and white as the Daily Mail comments page, thankfully.

And there was nothing to prove and there was no trial - she pled guilty to manslaughter.

But without sitting in court and hearing EVERYTHING you cannot possibly know why that plea was accepted.

The fact that people will make a snap decision based on a highly-edited newspaper report is indicative of our trial by social media society

@Ravenclawsome
It terrifies me that some people on this thread are eligible for jury

Terrifies me as well.

Havent RTFT but I remember reading about this while ago and I thought there was some possibility (at the time) that the baby could have died before she left. Obviously this doesnt make the situation any more palatable, or reasonable, (and would still leave the question why did she not seek help earlier) but I dont know if this has been disproven. Can the post mortem determine the time of death, or is it more likely to be an approximation.

[quote ufucoffee]@Ravenclawsome
It terrifies me that some people on this thread are eligible for jury

Terrifies me as well. [/quote]
And me. No wonder there are so many miscarriages of justice.

@HyacynthBucket

And this happened in sheltered accommodation in a city that is so woke it cant even call mothers mothers. What were their workers doing or thinking? Wrong priorities it seems.

Exactly this. Did nobody do weekly checks. The young mother was failed herself so I can see how she only got 9 years. She cannot of been in her right state of mind to leave her baby for days on end it's horrific.

In 99.9% of cases I’d be aghast at the idea of pushing sterilisation on a young woman. But actually in this case, I think it could be the kinder option all round. Certainly kinder than allowing her to continue getting pregnant, bringing babies into the world who are removed at birth, having to tell those children one day that they were removed because their birth mum did this to their older sibling. And possibly kinder to her, not to go through that trauma, potentially multiple times.
Perhaps where women have caused the death of a child, then sterilisation or at least long term contraception should be part of the conditions of their release? I realise though that there would need to be safeguards and backstops to ensure such a power was never abused.

If she wasnt reasonable...in that regard, ie the regard of expecting a two year old to suffer ill effects after 6 days then she wasn't of the reasonable regard to look after the child at all.

I'd like to know what conversations take place when she fell pregnant and if the authorities found out too late for termination then what happened at birth in terms of choices.

Cold and what about baby PS mum, Shannon Mathew's mum, the two mums of the other two cases where they physically beat their child?

And the men also.

Apparently Sam has another dc already...

• and don't forget many dc are suffering from alcohol fetul syndrome, exposed to drugs and alcohol through out the pregnancy leading to sen.

Regarding the child crying out, she had flu.

I've not been able to get out of bed with flu, barely talk with a sore throat, struggling to breathe.. Everything aches and hurts..

Exactly this. Did nobody do weekly checks. The young mother was failed herself so I can see how she only got 9 years. She cannot of been in her right state of mind to leave her baby for days on end it's horrific

Someone up thread had lived in the block, she commented staff were only there during office hours. Actual checks were one 20-30mins a month. Which clearly wasn't enough for this mum.

I agree she couldn't have been thinking straight, either through poor mental health or drugs or alcohol.

Lots of people are suggesting she could have given baby to her mum, but her mum couldn't have been that great a parent either or she wouldn't have ended up in care.

@SirGawain

The mother clearly needed support and the baby needed protection. You don’t need support to know that you don’t leave a twenty-month old while you party for six days.

Maybe not but attachment disorder or developmental trauma can lead to impulsive / risky behaviour, detachment from reality and issues with developing empathy, all of which could contribute to making poor decisions that seem completely unthinkable to many of us.

@Panickingpavlova I think it should have been on the table for those women as well. And that potentially we should be heavily incentivising addicts to be on reliable contraception. Although reversible, as plenty of people do get clean and go on to be good parents.

Of course her being sterilized won't happen.
She'll be taken care of thanks to the tax payer with a new identity and some rehabilitation and benefits etc. ( she won't serve nine years either , I guess )
She'll have a ' new life' , one she denied her own daughter :(
Like most people on here, I find this hard to stomach too , but there is isn't any alternative to this outcome and the only hope is she may receive a tough time of it in prison for a few years.

I just think having a child is a special thing Ive got friends who can't have dc and family.

Some are very sad and some do not mind as much and never hankered after them.
They are fine though.
These women have been blessed with dc and have actively harmed them.
A second chance is a second chance to commit murder again or indescribable cruelty, I can't fathom why it's so important to let them have this chances again?
They can still go on to lead rehabilitated happy lives.

Cold I think addiction is a separate subject.
The recent atrocities seemed to be carried out without major addiction issues present.

I'd be against sterilising her, remember she was 15 when this baby was conceived, probably as the result of abuse.

In 15 years time, she could be a very different person to what she is now. Thousands of people have done incredibly stupid and dangerous things in their youth, and managed to put it behind them. I really hope she it able to turn her life around when she gets out.

I wouldn’t call this a ‘stupid thing.’ The type of person that could do this is unlikely to become a ‘totally different person.’ If you became a better person you wouldn’t be able to live with what you’d done.

That is the thing, she needs to live it, knowing what she did and how her LO suffered.
Sooner or later it will really hit her. That is a horrendous thing to live with.

[quote ufucoffee]@Ravenclawsome
It terrifies me that some people on this thread are eligible for jury

Terrifies me as well. [/quote]
Terrified there's people out there that don't get that you don't have to use your two hands to murder someone. Not saying this is definitely the case here. Starvation can be used to kill someone. Amazing there has been no actual response other than "I'm terrified of these people on a jury".

Why can't starvation be murder? How is this "inaction" not murder, please? I need to be educated.

@Lockdownbear

That is the thing, she needs to live it, knowing what she did and how her LO suffered. Sooner or later it will really hit her. That is a horrendous thing to live with.

Good. It should be.

Yes. I mean, we all need to live with the choices we make? Not sure how else to answer that. I couldn’t live with it, I’d have killer myself knowing I did this. She found her child’s dead body and took the bins out/faffed about for two hours, but cried when she was sentenced to a measly 9 years in prison. Her child wouldn’t even be in high school by the time she’s out.

I don’t think she’ll find it as hard as we would think to live with what she’s done.